Why do people think Kevin Feige will do the X-Men justice?

[Hol]

well I personally disagree the mcu has been hit or miss when it comes to depicting characters. Iron Man and Captain America are fantastic but they never could hit the sweet spot with Thor or Hulk both of which going through huge personality changes. They also dropped Hank and Jan from the Avengers and made them bland old mentor types to Scott and Hope.

I thought the original X Trilogy was fantastic with First Class and DoFP also being amazing. Sure there have been some stinkers

I LOVE MCU Thor and Hulk. MCU Thor is one of my favorite movie superhero characters. Never cared for him much in the comics.

For me the MCU is awesome. Even the worst of their movies are still good. Most of them have been great IMO. So I am really excited to see what they will do with our favorite mutants.

I like some of the Fox Xmen movies but hate what they did with Scott. Scott Summers is such a great and complex character and he is killed off screen and never seen as the leader he is. It is disgraceful.

[Hol]

I loved Cyclops and Storm in the original movies. Not to mention you have to take into account these movies had much smaller budgets and were shorter. Also Marvel still failed most of their villains. I'd argue failing Hulk and Thor is a bigger offense and depending on who you ask Spidey



Then why don't people hate the Avengers? Literally all we have seen throughout these movies is support for the Avengers

We do not know yet how they are going to play up the Mutant hate in these movies because they haven't happened yet. We will see but I trust them.

And the Spiderman movies might not be amazing but they are good and Tom Holland in the Avengers movies is fantastic. He might not have the best movies but he is the best movie Peter Parker. At least to me.

[Kingdom X]

I also find it hilarious that someone really thinks the X-Men movies handled the topic of racism with Storm well (let alone better than any other film) when both actresses that played the character were biracial and lighter skinned women, when the character was constantly pushed into the background and existed as a token in every film she was in. A franchise that claims to be inspired by the Civil Rights movement but constantly uses white faces to tell that story is disrespectful and borderline whitewashing. Just recently the director of New Mutants (a white man) said he doesn't care about racism in Brazil when discussing the whitewashing of Sunspot, a character who is born of the actually real racism in Brazil. These X-Men movies absolutely never made a mark as a statement for representation for minorities, women, or the LGBTQ+ community because they were never intended to. I'm also not going to give them credit for anything when the director for majority of the films is an actual pedophile.

Period. The truth has been spoken y’all, close the thread.

[Castle]

That's the Fox-men films for you.

its not the film.

Comparing Xavier’s “drug addiction” in DoFP to heroin abuse is horrible if you’ve ever known anyone to actually be a heroin addict.

Sure, they used similar imagery. The metaphor ends there, full stop. Xavier suffered none of the consequences a true heroin addict suffers.

It was a cheap thrill at best.

Xavier suffered the consequences.
His lost his students, his lost his school, his lost his self worth, his lost his pride. he dealt with abandonment, the drug abuse affected his telepathy and he could not use cerebro.., Infact that was the major consequence, his mutants powers were gone. He shut the world out emotionally to balance the pain. In the beginning of the film Old Xavier tell Logan that Logan would have to be patient with his young self because he was a different person back them

it was not cheap at all, it was great and even more perfect when Old Xavier speaks to him and gives him hope, this when when xavier started recovering from the addiction.

[Jack The Tripper]

I was gonna stop commenting but I have to say one more thing:

Castle claiming that the FOX adaptations are made for mature people like himself is completely ironic considering his comments and views regarding subjectivity in art and film are completely immature.

Opinions are different. And if your idea of pure art is the FOX/DC movies that's fine. However art is subjective. As Blind Wedjat said, these movies are made by corporations for profit. None of them are a Paul Thomas Anderson movie. Just let it go lol

[Castle]

What I saw in that clip was someone telling a black woman that she shouldn't be angry after years of oppression. Not ONCE in Black Panther did anyone try to argue that Killmonger's pain wasn't justified. Instead they argued for better solutions that take both perspectives into consideration. THAT'S how you have meaningful conversations about race. Minorities don't want to be solely defined by their pain, which is all that the Fox movies did. Use straight white people to talk about minority pain without ever coming up with reasonable solutions and progress. You have still yet to respond to the point that the Fox X-Men movies were preaching about these issues without actually highlighting any of these groups.

X-Men covers both looking for solutions to end racism for a political POV and dealing with personally beyond politics those are characters like Nightcrawler. He tells her not to be angry. Magneto wanted Angel girl to be angry and she was black. Shaw tells mutants that they have two options. Rule or be enslaved and the camera is cut to Dawrin who is black. they are not defined by their pain they deal with it. there is a differnce.

The most meaningful but most realistic conversation about race is in first class. Xavier and Magneto lay down the main issue and magneto is more harsh with Xavier flawed plan to help mutants. Magneto even says, humans will turn on mutants.


Please don’t try to shift the goal post by saying this characters are white, white fictional characters does not reduce anything in a fiction subtext of the real world. For me it is grasping for straws.
I think it speak for Feige generic story style if white characters dug deeper into race problems far deeper than his black fictional characters. That is Feige’s fault not X-men.

If you have superficial issues with white characters from thee source material, fault stan lee he created them but are you really going to fault stan lee just to make Kevin Feige look good?
Its obvious now who handles the race issue better because now you are making it about they are white fictional characters when you should make it about screenplay of both movies.

Do you even know when you try and make it about white characters you are not attacking the Fox movies but the comics? what are the comics. MARVEL.

I'll give you points on the fat Thor thing... that was ridiculous. Anyways, have a good day everyone.

And the fact that fat Thor got ''critical acclaim'' because it was funny.

[Tofali]

I was gonna stop commenting but I have to say one more thing:

Castle claiming that the FOX adaptations are made for mature people like himself is completely ironic considering his comments and views regarding subjectivity in art and film are completely immature.

Opinions are different. And if your idea of pure art is the FOX/DC movies that's fine. However art is subjective. As Blind Wedjat said, these movies are made by corporations for profit. None of them are a Paul Thomas Anderson movie. Just let it go lol

100% agree. By now we have come across so many ppl (or just same person) like Castle to know how this so called "discussion" will devolve in to by engaging.

[Dboi2001]

With regards to the Black Panther and X-Men comparisons I 100% think Black Panther handled the conversation on race better and pushed the conversation forward. We get multiple perspectives on race, colonization, and globalization and we see T’Challa actually change and gain a greater understanding of his “enemy”.

Yes Magneto has depth, but do we ever see the X-Men respond with equal depth? At the end of the day it boils down too Magneto is wrong and the X-Men are right (rinse and repeat for the next 6 movies). Also race allegory that only highlights the white characters is super contradictory to the message of the story.

I disagree. Black Panther only tells, never shows and also assumes the audience is aware of these social issues. We don’t see Eric having a hard time in the hood or dealing with racism. We get 2 minutes of his childhood in Oakland and that’s that. In X Men we do see mutants being harassed for being different eve something as short as Warren filing his wings off so his dad wouldn’t find out and his dad simply saying “not you too” showing no concern for his son mutilating himself. Maybe you don’t think it is a problem but this is filmclass 101 and BP fails at both. on top of that things about Eric come off as contradictory like him being able to get into Annapolis Military Academy and become an elite soldier. Black Panther does a lot of grand standing built never shows any of the ugly not to mention Eric devolves into another “conquer the world” type saying he should rule the world. Also Eric is never particularly called out for being a racist and bigot

And i disagree i think the x-men do get their depth

[frankyspaceout]

X-Men covers both looking for solutions to end racism for a political POV and dealing with personally beyond politics those are characters like Nightcrawler. He tells her not to be angry. Magneto wanted Angel girl to be angry and she was black. Shaw tells mutants that they have two options. Rule or be enslaved and the camera is cut to Dawrin who is black. they are not defined by their pain they deal with it. there is a differnce.

The most meaningful but most realistic conversation about race is in first class. Xavier and Magneto lay down the main issue and magneto is more harsh with Xavier flawed plan to help mutants. Magneto even says, humans will turn on mutants.


Please don’t try to shift the goal post by saying this characters are white, white fictional characters does not reduce anything in a fiction subtext of the real world. For me it is grasping for straws.
I think it speak for Feige generic story style if white characters dug deeper into race problems far deeper than his black fictional characters. That is Feige’s fault not X-men.

If you have superficial issues with white characters from thee source material, fault stan lee he created them but are you really going to fault stan lee just to make Kevin Feige look good?
Its obvious now who handles the race issue better because now you are making it about they are white fictional characters when you should make it about screenplay of both movies.

Do you even know when you try and make it about white characters you are not attacking the Fox movies but the comics? what are the comics. MARVEL.


And the fact that Thor thing got ''critical acclaim'' because it was funny. fake acclaim is more like it. Mcavoy was Oscar Worthy playing that hippie druggie. that was the type of acclaim he got.

If you had dinner with Kevin Feige what would you want to talk about and also ask him?

P.S. basically you re saying to Kevin Feige "F**k You"

[Dboi2001]

I LOVE MCU Thor and Hulk. MCU Thor is one of my favorite movie superhero characters. Never cared for him much in the comics.

I’m glad you enjoyed them but marvel simply made him another generic quippy guy. Like people who say characters like Thor or boring and dull are no different than people who think superman is dull. Being funny is not a character trait but the mcu thinks so hence why we have so many generic characters with their only trait being quips. Dr Strange, Star-Lord, Ant-Man, Hank Pym, Thor all the same character type with zero depth

For me the MCU is awesome. Even the worst of their movies are still good. Most of them have been great IMO. So I am really excited to see what they will do with our favorite mutants.

I enjoy most mcu movies too but they’re nothing special and fairly disposable I have very little faith for the x men franchise

I like some of the Fox Xmen movies but hate what they did with Scott. Scott Summers is such a great and complex character and he is killed off screen and never seen as the leader he is. It is disgraceful.

And marvel didn’t do that to Thor and Hulk or anyone not named Iron Man or Captain America? Those were the only two to get any kind of real character growth. Everyone else is just as guilty of being sidelines like the X franchise. Making Thor fat was more of an offense than Last Stand Cyclops. I guarantee you Marvel will make Scott another funny man because hey people think he’s boring so what’s the solution make him funny

We do not know yet how they are going to play up the Mutant hate in these movies because they haven't happened yet. We will see but I trust them.

basing it off of how mcu movies are made i don’t have a good feeling. MCU movies rarely go into social commentary. Even Black Panther just skimmed over Eric’s motivations assuming you understand american prejudice and racial problems enough to relate to him. You can’t do that for mutants because they don’t exist

And the Spiderman movies might not be amazing but they are good and Tom Holland in the Avengers movies is fantastic. He might not have the best movies but he is the best movie Peter Parker. At least to me.

Holland has been awful as Peter Parker. His Spider Man is pretty good but there is no separation between peter parker and spider man. They both act the same. Maguire may have played up the nerdy aspect and Garfield the humor but both had distinct Peters and Spider Men. Holland feels no different as Peter or Spider Man

[Castle]

I disagree. Black Panther only tells, never shows and also assumes the audience is aware of these social issues. We don’t see Eric having a hard time in the hood or dealing with racism. We get 2 minutes of his childhood in Oakland and that’s that. In X Men we do see mutants being harassed for being different eve something as short as Warren filing his wings off so his dad wouldn’t find out and his dad simply saying “not you too” showing no concern for his son mutilating himself. Maybe you don’t think it is a problem but this is filmclass 101 and BP fails at both. on top of that things about Eric come off as contradictory like him being able to get into Annapolis Military Academy and become an elite soldier. Black Panther does a lot of grand standing built never shows any of the ugly not to mention Eric devolves into another “conquer the world” type saying he should rule the world. Also Eric is never particularly called out for being a racist and bigot

And i disagree i think the x-men do get their depth

I said this 6 pages back. black panther only tells and not by much as it is not the focus of the film.

Infact Magneto is not a full victim. I loved when he goes all Django uncahined/ Inglorious bastards and gets his revenge on the racist nazis that killed his family. was he right to do that? on the record I will say no but I understand his motives? so I will say, yes it was good he killed those nazis.




This is why the race subject is so intrestingg in xmen because it shows different aspect of how people deal with it. Some just seek righteous revenge, Black Panther is basic and simple with the topic. X-Men is more grey.

[SiegePerilous02]

You guys are legit arguing back and forth about these superhero blockbusters like they're high art films.

"My preferred superhero franchise from my preferred megacorporation is better than your preferred superhero franchise from your preferred megacorporation!"

Absolutely NONE of the superhero movies from Fox or Disney are high art, extremely risky, independent films. None of them. They're all big budget ventures designed to have mass appeal and all of the directors have had to answer and compromise with studio executives at some point. If you think otherwise, and if you think any of them are supposed to be 'cinema', then you're fooling yourself.

I'm not saying they can't ever achieve any higher meaning, but it is very, very rare and not the norm. They're designed to make money, not push the boundaries of cinema.

Opinions are different. And if your idea of pure art is the FOX/DC movies that's fine. However art is subjective. As Blind Wedjat said, these movies are made by corporations for profit. None of them are a Paul Thomas Anderson movie. Just let it go lol

Yeah. I love superheroes and superhero comics. But the vast majority of them are fluff entertainment not aimed at very mature audiences or don't stand up to very serious literature outside of the archetypes they represent/play with. So mega corporations making movies out of that, often removed from the continuity context and input of the creators who are above average in wringing great material out of them? You're not getting high art.

Even stuff like the Nolan Batman movies or JOKER are very good movies, but far from sophisticated cinema.

[Frobisher]

Yeah. I love superheroes and superhero comics. But the vast majority of them are fluff entertainment not aimed at very mature audiences or don't stand up to very serious literature outside of the archetypes they represent/play with. So mega corporations making movies out of that, often removed from the continuity context and input of the creators who are above average in wringing great material out of them? You're not getting high art.

Even stuff like the Nolan Batman movies or JOKER are very good movies, but far from sophisticated cinema.

100 times this. No-one’s getting acting Oscars from playing Hammer Man or Doctor Platypus, but it’s not only because of snobbery.

[HaydnC95]

I also find it hilarious that someone really thinks the X-Men movies handled the topic of racism with Storm well (let alone better than any other film) when both actresses that played the character were biracial and lighter skinned women, when the character was constantly pushed into the background and existed as a token in every film she was in. A franchise that claims to be inspired by the Civil Rights movement but constantly uses white faces to tell that story is disrespectful and borderline whitewashing. Just recently the director of New Mutants (a white man) said he doesn't care about racism in Brazil when discussing the whitewashing of Sunspot, a character who is born of the actually real racism in Brazil. These X-Men movies absolutely never made a mark as a statement for representation for minorities, women, or the LGBTQ+ community because they were never intended to. I'm also not going to give them credit for anything when the director for majority of the films is an actual pedophile.

I like the X-Men movies but even I agree with this. Nothing about Storms race is ever mentioned in the movies, it's never brought up and it's not something she really deals with.

When Storm arrives in the MCU though, I'd love Michaela Coel to get the part, she's a terrific actress.

[Castle]

Yeah. I love superheroes and superhero comics. But the vast majority of them are fluff entertainment not aimed at very mature audiences or don't stand up to very serious literature outside of the archetypes they represent/play with. So mega corporations making movies out of that, often removed from the continuity context and input of the creators who are above average in wringing great material out of them? You're not getting high art.

Even stuff like the Nolan Batman movies or JOKER are very good movies, but far from sophisticated cinema.

Nolan was a big fan of X-Men 1. He stole the idea of that film for Batman Begins. The vast majority are fluff not all of them. X-men and Batman when at their best are not fluff entertainment not even their 90s Saturday morning cartoons was fluff. X-MEN TAS was ground breaking because it sort of killed a character in the first episode. Spiderman is meant to have bad life crisis mostly 24/7 everyday. His most iconic moment in comics was failing to save Gwen Stacey. I will not call that fluff.

I think Feige has done somewhat of a good job in trying to rewrite the history of comic books that is just fluff entertainment so Avengers, GOTG, Iron Man films. While I think fluff MCU xmen will be enjoyable, I don’t think it will be received well because Xmen is so infamously known for the opposite of fluff. I know some franchise can adapt to new things but I don’t think xmen is one of those franchises.