Why do people think Kevin Feige will do the X-Men justice?

[Castle]

The more you post, the less sense you make.

Now you're making things up, blaming them on him, and complaining about that!

This doesn't even make sense. In what scenario would he even have to make that decision? What theoretical person or entity would have to sit down with him and say "You can show the holocaust or you can give a character purple hair,. but you can only do one of those things?"

Not only does the scenario not make sense, but you yourself are assigning him the answer that you want to give and using it as evidence against him?

That would be like me saying "If the Fox series had the choice between showing the Shi'ar empire or showing us Adam-X the Xtreme they'd show Adam-X. Why would they show Adam X? He's such a stupid character! They obviously don't know what they're doing." See how little sense that makes?

Can you show me any Feige movie that has the same traumatic opening story as X-Men 1 and X-Men first class. I can remember star lord seeing his mum die of cancer. you can elevate that moment to a traumatic harsher one with seeing Magneto mum get killed in front of him as he gets abused by Shaw. we see the first time Magneto kills people as a freaking child. Do you know the heavy human story telling themes of that moment? you will not find that in the MCU movies despite their higher RT score as mace was telling me. this is what makes xmen at its best, Marvel's best. They can push any story boundaries.

Feige cant do a movie like this justice if he could he would have done so after 25 movies.

[yogaflame]

Sebastian Shaw was not Magneto's Nazi tormentor. In Claremont's canon, Magneto's powers didn't even manifest until after he and Magna left the camps.

[Kingdom X]

With regards to the Black Panther and X-Men comparisons I 100% think Black Panther handled the conversation on race better and pushed the conversation forward. We get multiple perspectives on race, colonization, and globalization and we see T’Challa actually change and gain a greater understanding of his “enemy”.

Yes Magneto has depth, but do we ever see the X-Men respond with equal depth? At the end of the day it boils down too Magneto is wrong and the X-Men are right (rinse and repeat for the next 6 movies). Also race allegory that only highlights the white characters is super contradictory to the message of the story.

[Frobisher]

With regards to the Black Panther and X-Men comparisons I 100% think Black Panther handled the conversation on race better and pushed the conversation forward. We get multiple perspectives on race, colonization, and globalization and we see T’Challa actually change and gain a greater understanding of his “enemy”.

Yes Magneto has depth, but do we ever see the X-Men respond with equal depth? At the end of the day it boils down too Magneto is wrong and the X-Men are right (rinse and repeat for the next 6 movies). Also race allegory that only highlights the white characters is super contradictory to the message of the story.

The minority metaphor X-Men increasingly resemble a too-loyal abused spouse who keeps making excuses for their tormenter no matter how many times they "fall down the stairs". Black Panther looks the colonial powers in the eye and says "whether you like it or not, I am your equal".

[Castle]

With regards to the Black Panther and X-Men comparisons I 100% think Black Panther handled the conversation on race better and pushed the conversation forward. We get multiple perspectives on race, colonization, and globalization and we see T’Challa actually change and gain a greater understanding of his “enemy”.

Yes Magneto has depth, but do we ever see the X-Men respond with equal depth? At the end of the day it boils down too Magneto is wrong and the X-Men are right (rinse and repeat for the next 6 movies). Also race allegory that only highlights the white characters is super contradictory to the message of the story.

From an MCU POV there is push black panther handled it better..not. it is all down to the plot of the film. in xmen the race issue is the main plot of the film and we see the character circle around it. the first scenes of many xmen films has opened with some form of prejudice against mutants.

To get multiple views of race falls down to Magneto's arc, Xavier's arc, Shaw' Arc , Stryker's, humans like Kelly and the CIA arc. all gave different views on mutant rights even Wolverine is grey about. not to mention xmen gave many subtle nods to the real civil rights movement and in xmen we see consequence of racism. Rogue runs away from home, Bobby is disowned, magneto loses his mum, mystique cant go to a normal kindergarten school, Arcangel runs away from the mutant cure hospital, mutants are experimented on like human rat trash, Jason Stryker kills his mum , making his dad to go all Hitler on Jews, sorry I meant mutants the issue of race in xmen is deeper. Where is the suffering of POC in Black Panther? where is the war fought? it is not in the film at all. black panther is not compelling like XMen can be.

we see T’Challa actually change and gain a greater understanding of his “enemy”.

This is not even close to Xavier views of wanting mutant and humans to live together. Black Panther simply gave a speech by the end of the film of inclusion. Xavier started the movie with an oxford dissertation of mutant race issues. this is how he meets Moria and the films takes off, to him meeting magneto and clashing with raven on their views of mutants rights. do you see the difference?

This clip tackles the subject matter of not just racism better than black panther but the worst consequences of what happens when you try to change who you are.


I cannot find any black panther character who went through what beast went through. Beast also crosses over with LGBT themes when he says, don't ask, don't tell to Xavier on their first meeting. a law used for LGBT people in the army.

the main plot of black panther is closer to Thor 1 or Lion King not xmen race issues. if race issues has been the main plot of the film and you remove the CGI 3rd act of black panther. I truly think black panther will rank among X2, DOFP as among the best social themed marvel films but you see MCU cannot make the race subject the main plot of films. it disturbs their basic comic book formula.

[Kingdom X]

From an MCU POV there is push black panther handle it better from an objective point black panther did not and it is all down to the plot of the film. in first class the race issue is the plot of the film and we see the character circle around it. the first scenes of many xmen films has opened with some form of prejudice.

To get multiple views of race fall down to Magneto's arc, Xvaier's arc, Shaw' Arc and the CIA arc. all gave different views on mutant rights. not to mention xmen gave many subtle nods to the real civil rights act and in xmen we see consequence of racism. Rogue runs away from home, Bobby is disowned, magneto loses his mum, , mystique cant go to a normal kindergarten school, Arcangel runs away from the mutant cure hospital, mutants are experimented more like human trash the issue of race in xmen is deeper.



This is not even close to Xavier views of wanting mutant and humans to live together. Black Panther simply gave a speech by the end of the film of inclusion. Xavier started the movie with an oxford dissertation of mutant race issues. this is how he meets Moria and the films takes off, to him meeting magneto and clashing with raven on their views of mutants rights. do you see the difference?

This clip tackles the subject matter of not just racism better than black panther but the worst consequences of what happens when you try to change who you are.



I cannot find any black panther who experienced who went through what best wen through. Beast also cross over with LGBT themes when he says, don't ask, don't tell to Xavier on their first meeting.


the main plot of black panther is closer to Thor 1 or Lion King not xmen race issues. if race issues has been the main plot of the film and you remove the CGI 3rd act of the black panther. I truly think black panther will rank among X2, DOFP as among the best social themed marvel film but you see MCU cannot make the race the main plot of any films. it disturbs their basic comic book formula.

idk who told you that characters have to go through living hell to have a conversation about race. Black Panther has way more meaning when it comes to how race plays out in a modern context.

T'cholla did not just give a speech. He changed his entire nations policies on providing aid and giving back to the black community. He's making structural and societal change. What did Xavier do? Continuously allow his students to take the abuse from their oppressors while hiding in his mansion (and good luck to the ugly mutants who don't fit into the school).

I will admit that the X-Men films did LGBTQ allegory from time to time, but we've also reached the stage where you should start representing actual minority and LGBTQ characters instead of hiding behind straight white male characters.

[mace11]

Quote Originally Posted by mace11
I said i am objective too and i think the dceu has better movies on average then fox marvel films and i am more of a marvel fan then a dc fan.
So don't put words in my mouth that i did not say.
It's clear that you have a bias too but have no objectively as well.
I have both and it's possible to have both.
Like i said Castle i strongly disagree with your views.

It's clear you have hatred for avenger stuff related,you know the other side of marvel that's bigger then x-men and better.
You hate anything else that's in the marvel universe that's not x-men.
I don't hate x-men.


For by me the by way the best mcu movies are black panther and endgame.
Those are excellent movies and no fox marvel film is on those levels to me.
By the way the critics and audience are closer to my views on this when you look at rt and cinemas score.
No fox marvel film or dc film as an a+ cinema score but 3 mcu movies do.
So the mcu has some excellent movies like avengers,endgame,black panther and few others.
DC as few as well but no fox film as any in my view.
I have not seen logan yet and plan to later.
Note- no dc film as a a+ cinema score as well.

Exactly. We all are X-fans here. It's possible to be fans of more than one thing at once. I've loved various X-men films (Days of Future Past) and hated others (Origins: Wolverine). I even liked Dark Phoenix! And I loved Birds of Prey, Wonder Woman, Shazam and Aquaman. I'm looking forward to all the new Suicide Squad and Batman.

See Logan ASAP, it's breath taking.

I plan to see logan and still have not seen venom from sony marvel yet.
So there are some other comicbook films i need to catch up on.
Even some shows like mcu cloak and dagger,the gifted,mcu runaways,doom patrol,arrow,jessica jones,iron fist,daredevil,legion,the defenders,swamp thing etc.
I do plan to watch the boys season 2 right away and marvel helstrom on hulu.
Helstrom most likely is one season anyway.
For me i think all the x-men films have been good that i have seen but i am not fan of the x-men but i was a fan of certain characters years ago,but not any more.

I still have not seen dark phoenix yet.

Like i said Castle is not objective.
He is completely and strongly bias.

Clearly everybody has some bias and he clearly does not understand that.
You could be objective and bias.
This guy also ignore audience scores too.
The reason why marvel mcu have better scores from audiences and critics is because they have done a better job when comes to development of stories and character development,cgi,action etc.. on average from critics and audiences point of view then x-men mutant fox films.

[Castle]

idk who told you that characters have to go through living hell to have a conversation about race. Black Panther has way more meaning when it comes to how race plays out in a modern context.

Externally black panther has more impact. it is a black movie with an all black cast.

Internally it does not because internally means you have to talk about the story of the fictional film and fictional characters and what they go through. I have done that with xmen. can't see anyone doing the same with black panther.

T'cholla did not just give a speech. He changed his entire nations policies on providing aid and giving back to the black community. He's making structural and societal change. What did Xavier do? Continuously allow his students to take the abuse from their oppressors while hiding in his mansion (and good luck to the ugly mutants who don't fit into the school).

He changed things, and quickly? because MCU is a black and white world. [B]race issues are solved simply.

Xavier has been fighting and doing more for mutants with no real answer for the world government because the race issue is complex in x-men, Xavier has a melt down in DOFP about some of his failures and becomes a drug addict another story MCU cannot do. In DOFP, both young and old Xavier dream has failed for most of the movie.

I will admit that the X-Men films did LGBTQ allegory from time to time, but we've also reached the stage where you should start representing actual minority and LGBTQ characters instead of hiding behind straight white male characters.

Another fun thought of the race issue in xmen. here is another scene from xmen that tackles the race issue better than black panther did.


Kurt not only talks about how he deals with racism, he goes further to explain how his faith helps him tackle racism. Faith based religion is big in the black , jews and Hispanic community and part of it was because they dealt with racism and needed spiritual healing to move on. Kurt is that character, he is one of those mutants like beast that cannot hide how they look so he is very relatable with the worst of racism. Where is a similar character with Black panther like Kurt? I will wait.

I swear Feige has no idea what he is dealing with with X-Men. if black panther is the best he can do. he has made a top 6 xmen film not top 4.

[Ferro]

the avengers game is pure garbage that is pretty much mcu 2.0 that costs 60 bucks with microtransactions.

No the mcu wont help the x-men at all

[Castle]

the avengers game is pure garbage that is pretty much mcu 2.0 that costs 60 bucks with microtransactions.

No the mcu wont help the x-men at all

This is how avengers does PTSD truma stories.



while in xmen Xavier gets high on heroin and No, I am not telling people to take heroin but I loved to see a character on screen struggle with that and try and overcome that addiction. the fact that it happened in a comic film is an extra plus.

In Logan, Xavier has dementia because of his semi failed life.

I wont call Avengers Endgame garbage, it is a fun action movie for the transformer like masses. The big CGI Last act is very Feige. it is not TDK or DOFP were actually trying to talk to damaged people to change their evil ways like Xavier did with Raven or Gorden and Batman tried to do with Havey Dent.

No, no. In Avengers you solve problems with big cgi fights. Endgame can keep its 94% rt because the movie is fun.

For me I rather have more of the DOFP 90% and Logan 93% or Joker 68% if I can get the more real relatable complex stories, this is the most important requirement for the best films.

[Kingdom X]

Externally black panther has more impact. it is a black movie with an all black cast.

Internally it does not because internally means you have to talk about the story of the fictional film and fictional characters and what they go through. I have done that with xmen. can't see anyone doing the same with black panther.



He changed things, and quickly? because MCU is a black and white world. [B]race issues are solved simply.

Xavier has been fighting and doing more for mutants with no real answer for the world government because the race issue is complex in x-men, Xavier has a melt down in DOFP about some of his failures and becomes a drug addict another story MCU cannot do. In DOFP, both young and old Xavier dream has failed for most of the movie.


Another fun thought of the race issue in xmen. here is another scene from xmen that tackles the race issue better than black panther did.


Kurt not only talks about how he deals with racism, he goes further to explain how his faith helps him tackle racism. Faith based religion is big in the black , jews and Hispanic community and part of it was because they dealt with racism and needed spiritual healing to move on. Kurt is that character, he is one of those mutants like beast that cannot hide how they look so he is very relatable with the worst of racism. Where is a similar character with Black panther like Kurt? I will wait.

I swear Feige has no idea what he is dealing with with X-Men. if black panther is the best he can do. he has made a top 6 xmen film not top 4.

What I saw in that clip was someone telling a black woman that she shouldn't be angry after years of oppression. Not ONCE in Black Panther did anyone try to argue that Killmonger's pain wasn't justified. Instead they argued for better solutions that take both perspectives into consideration. THAT'S how you have meaningful conversations about race. Minorities don't want to be solely defined by their pain, which is all that the Fox movies did. Use straight white people to talk about minority pain without ever coming up with reasonable solutions and progress. You have still yet to respond to the point that the Fox X-Men movies were preaching about these issues without actually highlighting any of these groups.

I'll give you points on the fat Thor thing... that was ridiculous. Anyways, have a good day everyone.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Comparing Xavier’s “drug addiction” in DoFP to heroin abuse is horrible if you’ve ever known anyone to actually be a heroin addict.

Sure, they used similar imagery. The metaphor ends there, full stop. Xavier suffered none of the consequences a true heroin addict suffers.

It was a cheap thrill at best.

[Jackraow21]

I loved Fat Thor. And also Nightcrawler in X2. I think there’s room for both, and have no doubt that Feige and Disney-Marvel Studios knows what they’ve got in the X-men franchise. If ever there was a franchise for right now, it’s this one. And while I don’t expect them to make the films completely dour and serious at all times, I do expect that there will be a gravitas to them that perhaps most of the other MCU films lack. Because at its core the story of mutants is a story of oppression, fear, intolerance and hate; and how do you overcome that when you are the minority in the world. Not something that can be tackled lightly, though I’m sure there will be characters who give us more lighthearted moments even in the face of such serious subject matter (e.g., Iceman, Nightcrawler). My guess is right now they are brainstorming how they can achieve that balance and, yes, probably also how can they ensure that the X-men characters are diverse enough to effectively convey that allegory. So I do expect some race-bending and am okay with that. I’d take Giancarlo Esposito as Professor X or Magneto, for example. He’s a wonderful actor.

My $.02 anyway. I’m cautiously optimistic that we will get X-men tales from Feige that we will enjoy and that will do the franchise justice... though I am fully cognizant that X-fans are almost impossible to please because everyone has a very specific vision for his/her favorite character and how they should be portrayed, how much screen time they should get, etc. So it won’t be easy or perfect, but I think they’ll get it mostly right. Fingers crossed.

[yogaflame]

Comparing Xavier’s “drug addiction” in DoFP to heroin abuse is horrible if you’ve ever known anyone to actually be a heroin addict.

Sure, they used similar imagery. The metaphor ends there, full stop. Xavier suffered none of the consequences a true heroin addict suffers.

It was a cheap thrill at best.

That's the Fox-men films for you.

[Blind Wedjat]

You guys are legit arguing back and forth about these superhero blockbusters like they're high art films.

"My preferred superhero franchise from my preferred megacorporation is better than your preferred superhero franchise from your preferred megacorporation!"

Absolutely NONE of the superhero movies from Fox or Disney are high art, extremely risky, independent films. None of them. They're all big budget ventures designed to have mass appeal and all of the directors have had to answer and compromise with studio executives at some point. If you think otherwise, and if you think any of them are supposed to be 'cinema', then you're fooling yourself.

I'm not saying they can't ever achieve any higher meaning, but it is very, very rare and not the norm. They're designed to make money, not push the boundaries of cinema.

I also find it hilarious that someone really thinks the X-Men movies handled the topic of racism with Storm well (let alone better than any other film) when both actresses that played the character were biracial and lighter skinned women, when the character was constantly pushed into the background and existed as a token in every film she was in. A franchise that claims to be inspired by the Civil Rights movement but constantly uses white faces to tell that story is disrespectful and borderline whitewashing. Just recently the director of New Mutants (a white man) said he doesn't care about racism in Brazil when discussing the whitewashing of Sunspot, a character who is born of the actually real racism in Brazil. These X-Men movies absolutely never made a mark as a statement for representation for minorities, women, or the LGBTQ+ community because they were never intended to. I'm also not going to give them credit for anything when the director for majority of the films is an actual pedophile.