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  1. #436
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    I agree fox did some movies that allowed a greater flexibility on the storytelling front on some movies of the X-men, they didnīt try to do superhero movies, just a movie that had super heros as stars. I actually enjoyed X-men first class, Dark Phoenix(the last one) and Days of future past and if Matthew vaughn had stayed with them post X-men firts class I believe they would have grown to have a more coherent narrative and world more acording to the comics.

    My only problem is that at the same time, Fox cut all possibilities of making the X-men a more adult version of the MCU by refusing to respect most of the original material as well as itīs bad handling of the characterizations for most characters, when the actors are more aware and care more for how their characters should look or act and have to make suggestions to make the story more coherent with their character like Olivia Month and Michael Fassbender did then it became obvious fox didnīt really had a big end plan or storytelling for the X-men beyond doing more movies for the sake of it, for Fox it seemed the X-men were a never ending story of Wolverine and friends so of course it made sense to kill all of them in the end, there was not much future for them there imo, in this the MCU does have the edge over Fox in which you can see that most stories there lead to a bigger storytelling.

    The MCU does have a formula, they donīt like to take risks or deviate too much from it, it works for them very well but my guess is that they will have to do some changes to it soon if they want to bring to life parts of the MU that donīt quite are the type of stories in which it makes sense to joke all the time. I also like that sometimes they allow for some flexibility with the characters but keeping the essence of who they are, I actully like way more MCU avengers than comic Avengers and a big part of that is that is because the MCU managed to make most people care for their stories even if they are not quite the same of the comics.

    So I know the X-men could get a bad characterization from the MCU but I am also optimistic at the possibility of seeing them live in a world more akin to the MU with a end plan for them.
    Last edited by Lucyinthesky; 09-04-2020 at 09:16 PM.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

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  2. #437
    BANNED Killerbee911's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I found Matthew Vaughn's First Class excellent, they should give him the reins again.I don't really understand how Singer swooped in and hijacked the franchise again after how good First class was.Although Snyder is an excellent choice because he likes darker ,heavier storylines and Marvel doesn't get much heavier than the Xmen.
    First Class was good movie bad X-men adaption, Matthew Vaughn was fine but I wouldn't anyone near franchise again who wants to take that much liberties or doesn't understand were you need to fanboy and keep stuff in tact.

    I love Zach Synder but he needs to be on story with a strong structure because his takes get a little out of control when give freedom. For me 300 and Watchmen were good because he had to stay on strict path and Synder is great at staying true to vision with definitive path. I would love to see him on something like God loves Man Kills or Phoenix saga because those good hard stories which already work and he gets you don't reinterpret stuff that works. It would pretty funny if he did the Gifted arc but joking aside if they did Morrison stuff he would be the perfect guy for it.
    Last edited by Killerbee911; 09-04-2020 at 09:24 PM.

  3. #438
    Fantastic Member OblivionX33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gray Lensman View Post
    The goalposts have been moved far, far away from the title of this thread. The title is "why do people think Fiege will do the X-Men justice?" Yet we have moved to "Why can't you realize how wrong you are for not hating the MCU as much as I do?"

    The answer to the initial question is Because Fox has shown us a bunch of characters who LOOK like the X-Men but aren't them. Heroic and straight Mystique. Weaksauce at best Cyclops. Mini-Scott Iceman. Wallpaper Storm. The Dark Phoenix Saga featuring Afterthought Jean. Twice.

    Mediocre would be a major improvement for those characters.

    The answer to the Second question is stop trying to change the subject because you didn't like the answer to the first question.
    Yep, that's all this topic is at the end of the day.

    There is no meeting of minds here, no middle ground, just a vent session thread for whinners that can't forumlate their opinions outside themselves. They see their viewpoint as LAW in terms of what a good or bad movie is let alone a great comic book adoptation (highly subjective) is in relation to the MCU and X-MEN. Like they can see the future or something. When they haven't seen a lick of Kevin Feige's direction for such beloved characters. Although it is clear through leaks and other news that. That Marvel Studios/KF will be diving deeper into Marvel Lore (good, bad or middlingly) for this next phrase by focusing on making the world more interconnected and about things bigger beyond just Tony and Cap, which will lay the ground work for the introduction of Mutants. Little by little...and that alone IMO should be music to people's ears, in comparsion to FOX.

    (No banning of comics on a Marvel set that's for sure)

    Now of course. There can and should be caution nothing wrong with being objective (no hate boner). In regards to how the X-men will be presented; structurally, story quality wise, plot quality (which runs will they pull from?), sub-plot, characterization, personalities dynamic, mood, conflict, setting, team make up and endgame. Because to any logical person they know that the MCU isn't perfect. So I see no reason not to - reasonably - compare, critique and contrast once Marvel Studios, X-Train starts reving up into high gear. I mean like others have said everyone isn't going to love every choice or direction but hopefully they will love the consistency and follow through compared to previous entries.

    Plus if there are any huge negatives or bumps in the road. With Disney + and their other owned platforms being a space for future Marvel content that's where improvements or echancements can be made through High-Quality, big budget mini-series or animated shows (+ Comics) giving us plenty of options. If are specific live action X-men fix isn't being met on the big screen.

    We will no longer be pigeon held to one method of consuming live action X-men content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    First Class was good movie bad X-men adaption, Matthew Vaughn was fine but I wouldn't anyone near franchise again who wants to take that much liberties or doesn't understand were you need to fanboy and keep stuff in tact.

    I love Zach Synder but he needs to be on story with a strong structure because his takes get a little out of control when give freedom. For me 300 and Watchmen were good because he had to stay on strict path and Synder is great at staying true to vision with definitive path. I would love to see him on something like God loves Man Kills or Phoenix saga because those good hard stories which already work and he gets you don't reinterpret stuff that works. It would pretty funny if he did the Gifted arc but joking aside if they did Morrison stuff he would be the perfect guy for it.
    I doubt Synder would go to Marvel lol the DC fanboys would lose their collective minds. In the worst way.
    Last edited by OblivionX33; 09-04-2020 at 10:08 PM.

  4. #439
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    I'm starting to feel that there's nothing interesting to discuss or compare until we actually see a MCU X-Men project and can compare the strengths and weaknesses of them. I mean, we can guess that Marvel Studios tendency to plan ahead, general success at adapting their characters to the big screen, and frequent use of lesser known characters could be applied well to a new X-Men series (I'd like to see them start with the B and c-listers and let Professor X and co. have a rest), but it's not a given that everything will work out.
    Doctor Strange: "You are the right person to replace Logan."
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  5. #440
    Fantastic Member OblivionX33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I'm starting to feel that there's nothing interesting to discuss or compare until we actually see a MCU X-Men project and can compare the strengths and weaknesses of them. I mean, we can guess that Marvel Studios tendency to plan ahead, general success at adapting their characters to the big screen, and frequent use of lesser known characters could be applied well to a new X-Men series (I'd like to see them start with the B and c-listers and let Professor X and co. have a rest), but it's not a given that everything will work out.
    Precisely...

    Maybe don't go completely the new Spider-man (still love them) route with trying to avoid any and all retreadings. But just follow a different path towards greater pay offs down the line. Rather that be using B or C list X-men/Villians/Stories or a mix. As long as certain characters feel like real people instead of side kicks will be a huge step in the right directio. Coupled with presenting us with a dynamic X-men adventure (big or small) minus the black leather wearing melodrama and we get complex relationships and a full range of different moments that will do justice to the X-men name on their own merit. Beyond pure nostalgia or gimmicks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucyinthesky View Post

    The MCU does have a formula, they donīt like to take risks or deviate too much from it, it works for them very well
    This narrative needs to die lol it's taken on a life of it's own at this point. But i guess it's up to Marvel Studios to show people that this isn't true.
    Last edited by OblivionX33; 09-04-2020 at 10:25 PM.

  6. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkMagnus View Post
    to be fair.

    Synder is a DC fanboy and he dont have any opinion good or bad about Marvel Comics.

    If they want to choose a director they need someone who is a x-fan but really a good one.
    I don't think that is Snyder's issue. Directors using their fanboy hearts is secondary or used to be secondary. Most directors just care about a ''good'' film. Before the MCU you should be able to find directors praising other movies that are supposed to be their rivals. Nolan made a DC film but he loved X-Men 1, Sam Raimi made a marvel film but he loved The Dark Knight. A DC film.

    Snyder just hates cooperate made superficial films, which is how many MCU movies are done if not all of them. The establishment did try to take Snyder down.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    When you say 'pressed' , what do you mean? Pressed by who? Sony? Let's be real here it was an absolute money grab.Spiderman did not fit into the civil war narrative in the slightest.He was shoehorned with absolutely zero sense. Tony first has issues with an innocent kid dying in Sokovia because of the collateral and then recruits a kid into a battle that will involve more collateral?..the logic is infantile we all know the fight in the airport was a pillow fight, but if Stark called Peter to participate for one it was stupid to think if he(IM) would take it easy on the others ,the others would reciprocate in kind and secondly if we do assume the fight by all was a friendly rehearsal ,then all his posturing about the accords is pointless.You cannot enforce the accords half heartedly you have to go all in otherwise you are making a fool of yourself.Civil War has some of the dumbest writing I've seen
    Tony has done a lot of things that does not fit the flow of the entire series. Call it the big negative of the marvel ''cinematic'' universe. He retired in Iron Man 3 then he is unretired in Age Of Ultron. All of this, I can look past had the movie drawn more from the source material.

    Spiderman should not be a kid in the MCU. The only reason he is a kid is because Disney wants to shove him down on their kids market much worse than they do with their other characters, many don't seem to realise this does affect most of how their movies are written and filmed. The airport Fight was not a civil war, it was more of a humor war with the shallow cinematography to boot. When Magneto says at the end of X-Men 1 there is a war coming and he intends to fight it, there was more real stakes in that line than the entire civil war. Better my foot that Feige will do better, why can't we see the signs.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-04-2020 at 11:59 PM.

  7. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by OblivionX33 View Post
    Yep, that's all this topic is at the end of the day.

    There is no meeting of minds here, no middle ground, just a vent session thread for whinners that can't forumlate their opinions outside themselves. They see their viewpoint as LAW in terms of what a good or bad movie is let alone a great comic book adoptation (highly subjective) is in relation to the MCU and X-MEN. Like they can see the future or something. When they haven't seen a lick of Kevin Feige's direction for such beloved characters. Although it is clear through leaks and other news that. That Marvel Studios/KF will be diving deeper into Marvel Lore (good, bad or middlingly) .
    The Marvel lore of Marvel is not the MCU so far. MCU had deviated from the marvel lore. if they had used the marvel lore, every marvel movie must and should be able to be sold as their own thing but no, they are all the same with little distinction from the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by WebLurker View Post
    I'm starting to feel that there's nothing interesting to discuss or compare until we actually see a MCU
    Give it 3 years, we would be back here discussing how the Kevin naysayers were right with this one.

    until we actually see a MCU X-Men project and can compare the strengths and weaknesses of them. I mean, we can guess that Marvel Studios tendency to plan ahead, general success at adapting their characters to the big screen, and frequent use of lesser known characters could be applied well to a new X-Men series (I'd like to see them start with the B and c-listers and let Professor X and co. have a rest), but it's not a given that everything will work out.
    There was past Hulk Projects and Spiderman Projects, you can use that to compare the strength and weakness of any upcoming MCU X-men. Lou Ferrigno is quite negative to the ''modern'' MCU Hulk.

    MCU is just not going to wake up and change their formula because they have X-Men? star wars is a bigger movie series than X-Men and Disney tried to force the MCU formula on star wars.

    The perception that MCU actually plans on doing better than Fox is wishful thinking, MCU will make a very fluff generic xmen film . they expect everyone to look past that because it is all about X-Men in the MCU, this was the trick they already used with Spiderman.

    Does anyone truly believe the MCU can replicate Days Of Future Past/Logan for one of their own MCU films. Forget the very unapologetic adult theme story of the film. MCU cannot make a movie that looks like a grounded sci fiction reality. You can't sell too many toys with that type of movie. Its going to be cringe inducing to see X-Men looking as colourful and as animated as Avengers, Ant Man or GOTG . That alone sucks already compared to X-Men 1 or X-Men 2. If you guys want to keep bringing up DC. The trailer for The Batman has TDK Vibes , MCU X-Men sending out Logan Vibes will be made possible if Disney announced 6 months before that the movie is coming out under Touchstone.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-05-2020 at 12:01 AM.

  8. #443
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    All I know is that they need to hurry up with the damned movies because they won't make an X-Men game or cartoon series until they have the MCU version to ape.

  9. #444
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OblivionX33 View Post
    Precisely...

    Maybe don't go completely the new Spider-man (still love them) route with trying to avoid any and all retreadings. But just follow a different path towards greater pay offs down the line. Rather that be using B or C list X-men/Villians/Stories or a mix. As long as certain characters feel like real people instead of side kicks will be a huge step in the right directio. Coupled with presenting us with a dynamic X-men adventure (big or small) minus the black leather wearing melodrama and we get complex relationships and a full range of different moments that will do justice to the X-men name on their own merit. Beyond pure nostalgia or gimmicks.
    Agreed

    [/B]This narrative needs to die lol it's taken on a life of it's own at this point. But i guess it's up to Marvel Studios to show people that this isn't true.
    Exactly,I also would like to see Kevin Fiege prove me wrong if that leads to a good characterization and storytelling for the X-men.
    "To the X-men then, who donīt die the old fashioned way and no matter how hard we try, none of us die forever" Uncanny X-Men #270, Jean and Ororo

    Magneto: The master of magnetism Appreciation 2022
    Polaris: The Mistress of Magnetism Appreciation 2022
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  10. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rev9 View Post
    I found Matthew Vaughn's First Class excellent, they should give him the reins again.I don't really understand how Singer swooped in and hijacked the franchise again after how good First class was.Although Snyder is an excellent choice because he likes darker ,heavier storylines and Marvel doesn't get much heavier than the Xmen.
    DOFP was a good and well received movie so I'll give Singer some credit for that at least. I liked Vaughn's approach and First Class was fun but not exactly a good X-Men adaptation, and he made Mystique a prominent character (which really damaged the franchise afterwards).

  11. #446
    Astonishing Member Zelena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Killerbee911 View Post
    First Class was good movie bad X-men adaption, Matthew Vaughn was fine but I wouldn't anyone near franchise again who wants to take that much liberties or doesn't understand were you need to fanboy and keep stuff in tact.
    I don’t care really for a good X-men adaptation, nothing can really beat the comics as a medium in terms of storytelling, character development, creativity… when it’s well done… The problem is that X-men have become an institution: it is good when creators have freedom… although the converse doesn’t necessarily hold true.

    I just care for a good movie that surprises and interests me and I found “First Class” good. “Days of Future Past” too, although I still don’t understand what Magneto was doing with this stadium, neither why he provoked the “humans”…

    Comics is just material that can inspire a movie director.
    “Strength is the lot of but a few privileged men; but austere perseverance, harsh and continuous, may be employed by the smallest of us and rarely fails of its purpose, for its silent power grows irresistibly greater with time.” Goethe

  12. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by OblivionX33 View Post
    MV only did that movie to get Kingsmen and Kick Ass off the ground. I wouldn't exactly call Frist Class excellent or faithful it's better than X3 and X1 one that's for sure. But his choice to kill the only black guy in the cast will always sour my taste.
    In Matthew's defence that was Darwin, we cannot categorically say he is dead.Plus you walk a tightrope, with a character like Darwin who is incredibly and incrementally powerful, how do you portray him as a team member without showing him as this 'Swiss army knife' that can take on Hellfire alone? In all likelihood he could but again in a single film that is implausible and over a series of film people would say Darwin is so cool but is underused.So I guess he went with the logical choice
    Last edited by Rev9; 09-05-2020 at 12:09 AM.

  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerCo View Post
    DOFP was a good and well received movie so I'll give Singer some credit for that at least. I liked Vaughn's approach and First Class was fun but not exactly a good X-Men adaptation, and he made Mystique a prominent character (which really damaged the franchise afterwards).
    He made her recognisable and closer to Xavier, but not prominent, it was Singer who seized on Hunger games popularity to push her front and center.That was not Vaughn

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerCo View Post
    DOFP was a good and well received movie so I'll give Singer some credit for that at least. I liked Vaughn's approach and First Class was fun but not exactly a good X-Men adaptation, and he made Mystique a prominent character (which really damaged the franchise afterwards).
    DoFP was good , but I don't know what Singer did to get Apocalypse gig after his sexual impropriety allegations.Apocalypse was terrible. Apocalypse at least to me is a villain you develop over a series of films and MCU would do well to keep either him, Sinister or Selene as big threats over a multiple arc

  15. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerCo View Post
    DOFP was a good and well received movie so I'll give Singer some credit for that at least. I liked Vaughn's approach and First Class was fun but not exactly a good X-Men adaptation, and he made Mystique a prominent character (which really damaged the franchise afterwards).
    DOFP before Logan, after TDK is objectivity the most well received artful comic film at that time. It made other MCU movies look like kid's prep game. People also need to realise this was at a time that Winter Solider became the most well received MCU movie to date and is still is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kitty&Piotr<3 View Post
    All I know is that they need to hurry up with the damned movies because they won't make an X-Men game or cartoon series until they have the MCU version to ape.
    Movies, games and cartoons should not be strongly tied to the other. You would think DC would have known this trick? DC does. Disney has yet to make a great Marvel animation. I will proudly say Disney has done worse with marvel cartoons than they have done with star wars/mcu

    Their latest marvel game so far so good looks trash, it is based of the MCU. You can already tell it is not going to be on the same level as Spiderman 2018 PS4 or DC Injustice 2017.



    2005's X-Men Legends II looks better than this game. Everything thing now about marvel is manufactured corporate nonsense and it is killing their creative heights.This is not the mid 2000s , a marvel fan had X-Men 2, X-men Evolution and X-Men legends, all their own separate creative thing but very richful to the lore of X-Men and high quality to rank. We are no longer in that great creative era of Marvel.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I don’t care really for a good X-men adaptation, nothing can really beat the comics as a medium in terms of storytelling, character development, creativity… when it’s well done… The problem is that X-men have become an institution: it is good when creators have freedom… although the converse doesn’t necessarily hold true.
    this is what I have been saying about movies, like everyone else Killerbee911 thinks I am wrong because of rotten tomatoes. Maybe the best way to look at this is to ask what will be the rotten tomatoes of xmen movies if there were MCU movies. First Class would no go under a 98%, considering the amount of story telling and character development and themes it has compared directly to mcu movies. it is not close.

    In the spirit of bad adaption, which usually means, did not follow the source material , GOTG, Iron Man, Ultron, Avengers are all bad adaptions.

    I just care for a good movie that surprises and interests me and I found “First Class” good. “Days of Future Past” too, although I still don’t understand what Magneto was doing with this stadium, neither why he provoked the “humans”…
    Humans were already angry and scared. Magneto was just being Magneto. However the best part was Magneto trying to kill the president and his team on live tv to show who really has the true power. You will never see this type of aggressive social theme in an mcu movie because if magneto is a villain, so is the president.
    Comics is just material that can inspire a movie director.

    If you say this to Kevin Feige, a movie director could get fired for ''creative differences''. It has happen so many times. Honesty I don't see any movie director directing xmen working well with Feige unless he has not watched all the 13 xmen movies.
    Last edited by Castle; 09-05-2020 at 01:25 AM.

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