Why do people think Kevin Feige will do the X-Men justice?

[yogaflame]

To be fair, Ultimate Wasp was Asian. And a mutant.

[Jack The Tripper]

How did Ultimates make Avengers more diverse, Ultimates was Iron Man,Thor, Hulk, Widow, Antman, Wasp, Hawkeye same old white squad. Only token Nick Fury is around who appears in the film you are criticizing is around.

He's correct in that Wasp was also PoC (Asian-American I think). But even so, that's one out of six (I'm not counting Fury, he wasn't an Avenger) so it's not exactly a melting pot of culture lmao. And if I'm being cynical, I think the only reason she was Asian American was for Millar to fan cast her as Lucy Liu who was a popular actress at the time. As he did with Sam Jackson/Fury.

[Killerbee911]

To be fair, Ultimate Wasp was Asian. And a mutant.

My bad I am wrong. It is has been awhile..I had to go back check I couldn't remember the answer is the Greg land version is stuck in my head.

[ChronoRogue]

Oh wow 2 movies they’re really changing the game. It took them 10 years to make a female centric movie and Gamora hasn’t done anything memorable. Wanda could’ve been cool but they constantly drag her down. I can certainly name more memorable moments from Storm and Jean than either of those 2. It didn’t have to be this way

How would making movies about non white or male heroes be risky? You act like there has never been any non white or female superhero movies. Again any criticism to Feige gets deflected to other powers that be so he gets all the credit for the good but none of the criticism

Well it’s a good thing the prequel trilogy (or 4 movies?) didn’t focus on Wolvie relegating him to cameos.

Two moves better than Fox ever did. What memorable moments for Jean and Storm? lol they are both poor characters in the Fox films

You say it took them 10 years, but Fox had even more time and did worse for female characters. The X-Men have a wealth of strong and interesting women, but Fox completely butchered them. The fact that I even like the Avengers woman over the Fox X-Women is disgraceful considering how big of a fan I am of them in other mediums.

Oh wow, we get the honor of not turning a film franchise into a solo for one trilogy but still have extremely poor balance in focus. Fox did extremely little right.

Hulk and Wanda got development? Yeah sure they did. Hulk’s development happened off screen and Scarlet Witch has been nothing but “the op one but does nothing op”. The problem i see is everyone complains that their favorite X Man wasn’t shown more. There needed to be more Cyclops, Jean, Storm, Angel, Jubilee, Dazzler, Colossus, Kitty, Nightcrawler, Beast and the list goes on. The fact is there are two types of characters in the mcu. The ones who are beloved and the other ones. Find me one person who think War Machine or Wanda are their favorite heroes from the movies. and if moments define these characters o can think of some cool moments for Scott and Ororo but they’re just that moments. The problem with the x men is they’re overcrowded and along with that typically deal with heavy issues that need time to develop. Things are going to be cut. Singer tried to develop Scott in X2 but most of his scenes didn’t really add to the plot so they had to go. Scott was suppose to play a bigger role but Marsden wanted to follow Singer for Superman Returns. And Apocalypse and to an extent Dark Phoenix set up Scott as more of a leader so it’s not like Singer/Fox/whoever weren’t trying

Dude comic books are cheap to produce meaning marvel comics can make 20 different x men titles with different teams. movies can’t.

Um Hulk got tons of development in Thor 3. Comedy relief yet, but you see the dichotomy of his personality pretty clear in that film and how Banner feels about his role in the team versus them caring about what Hulk can do and insecurities that play into that (for both of them actually). Hulk has played major roles since the start of the film franchise so this comment is ???.

As for Wanda she accidentally killed a bunch of people that directly played into the development of the Accords and the main plot, had a romance with Vision, and had tons of action in the Infinity Saga. She has her own TV series planned that will further develop her and from what we know of Doctor Strange she's going to play a big role there too.

Didn't I just explain why Disney's approach is better than Fox's because they bother to expand? No one told Fox to pigeon hole the X-Men into one team when they could've developed X-Factor, X-Force, Blue & Gold, etc... and built an entire franchise out of them way sooner. Instead Disney took that idea and ran with it, making Fox look like fools (which they were) that repeated story-lines with added poor characterization.

[HaydnC95]

The original trilogy had its flaws. Storm and Cyclops for one. Need I quote Storm asking what happens to a toad...gagg. Then X3 was just a terrible movie. Not to mention Wolverine Origins. Then Apocalypse and Dark Phoenix.

Which ironically was written by Joss Whedon

[Kingdom X]

The main reason I’m hopeful for the MCU X-Men is because Feige has made me care about properties that I previously had no interest in. He elevated the Avengers and GotG, and actually got me to see Captain America movies in theaters. If he can put even half of that energy into the X-Men, then that gives me something to be excited about.

[Dboi2001]

I mean, the push for inclusion wasn't as big then as it is now. It's well known that Perlmutter didn't think that women-centered movies would make money, and it has also been rumoured that it was his decision to replace Terrence Howard with Don Cheadle because "All black people look the same". Perlmutter, like many billionaires and CEOs, is purely money driven. He was looking at films like Catwoman and Elektra as examples. Feige literally couldn't do a lot of the above because of Perlmutter. And as I've said in my previous post, i agree that the biggest problem is that Feige hasn't included a variety of POC women.

Then i guess Perlmutter thinks all white people look the same too. You act Feige isn’t a businessman. Why did marvel wait until after wonder woman to confirm captain marvel? Like yeah if the only superheroine movies we’re Electra and Catwoman no wonder it took them long

Antonio Stark isn't necessarily much better than Anthony Stark - Antonio is still shown as American, not overtly Italian-American except the name. Also, Perlmutter as CEO had absolute control. If he wanted POC, he would have gotten them.
You have this idea where you think anybody who's excited for anything MCU is a Feige shill, when people are just excited to have fun, exciting adaptations of their favourite characters. It ain't that deep. I know you're a fan of the 1610 stuff, and MCU borrowed elements of it to modernise Avengers, but outside of a few aesthetic things that was it. After Avengers (2012), things shifted slowly toward more 616 stuff.

at this point the mcu is its own thing different from either 616 or 1610 but stark most certainly is more like 1610

regardless if that’s the case why make Valk black and gay? why make Fury black? Why make Mar Vell a woman? Why make the Ancient One white?

What's your point about WB? They don't have rights over X-Men, so you're going off topic. Nice. I could give you a few examples of how Marvel Studios' efforts in diversity have (so far) had more of an important effect on society, but this is not a MCU vs DCEU thread, so I won't. I won't be commenting on this further.

How is the mcu more important? None of these movies are important they’re action movies

I’m showing that corporate movie companies can include diversity

I never called anyone a shill. don’t put words in my mouth. All i’m saying is whenever i criticize feige it always gets deflected from him

[Revolutionary_Jack]

No dude that isn’t true.

Yes it is.

People have been calling for inclusion since the 80s.

People have called for a lot of things long before the '80s. There's a difference between calling for something and movement and changes in the mainstream that respond to those calls. Diversity and representation in franchise media really became mainstream in the last decade. That much is inarguable. It's the first time stuff people have talked about and criticized decades back are finally having their voices heard and changes reflected based on what they long argued.

Why do you think things like Power Rangers or X Men or Captain Planet had perfectly diverse casts? Why do you think the JL animated series replaced Hal and Arthur with John and Sheyera?

Cartoon shows like that, owing to the lack of pressure of "representing the brand" often have freedom especially with characters like Green Lantern and Hawkgirl who are totally obscure and unknown. With Power Rangers considering it originated in Japan it would be bizarre for it not to have diversity. As for Captain Planet...well it's kind of a kids' show mixed with PSA.

But again the Avengers didn’t have to be entirely white

I agree but given the landscape at the time, the entire context of how the MCU got made (Marvel basically mortgaged the rights of all its characters to get a big fat loan from Merrill Lynch, and had Iron man failed, it could well have finished the company), and the difficulty of making a superhero team-up movie to start with, it made other issues more pressing at the time.

He's correct in that Wasp was also PoC (Asian-American I think). But even so, that's one out of six (I'm not counting Fury, he wasn't an Avenger) so it's not exactly a melting pot of culture lmao. And if I'm being cynical, I think the only reason she was Asian American was for Millar to fan cast her as Lucy Liu who was a popular actress at the time. As he did with Sam Jackson/Fury.

Considering how poorly Ultimate Wasp was treated in that comic, it's not much to boast for her being PoC.

[Slicknickshady]

Kevin will crap himself, you think he’d have the balls to do Dani and Rahne in the MCU? Lol.

The Fox Men movies have been overall better than the MCU films. Every film is the same in the MCU.

[Grunty]

The main reason I’m hopeful for the MCU X-Men is because Feige has made me care about properties that I previously had no interest in. He elevated the Avengers and GotG, and actually got me to see Captain America movies in theaters. If he can put even half of that energy into the X-Men, then that gives me something to be excited about.

Something which comes to my mind thinking back to how the MCU was formed and how it managed to turn the Guardians of the Galaxy into a household name, is how vastly different the MCU take on the X-men might end up being, compared to what one would assume based on the comics.

I have the feeling some fans will be quite dissapointed or upset if their take on the X-men franchise doesn't follow the comics very strictly or even disregard the "hirarchy" of character popularity in which get chosen for roles, even though at this point it might end up being very possible.

For example the first mutant team could end up being the All New All Different cast, without Wolverine. But instead of going to Krakoa, they are gathered by Storm from various "drifters" as a team for a heist.
Their target being an organization named KRAKOA which deals in stolen cultural heritage art (including some pieces from the communtiy which raised her) to fund super soldier experiments. Further the post credit sequence showing Nick Fury talking to a "professor" about the teams exploit and the chance of recruiting them, but then it turns out he talks to a middle aged Jean Grey, with the next movie revealing the X-men were formed in the 80's and by present day Charles Xavier died of old age with Jean taking his job as leader of the unformed X-men.

Or the MCU X-men could be heavily inspired by X-men Evolution, simply because the director liked that cartoon the most of the X-men ones.

Simply put. It would be well adviced for everyone looking forward to the Marvel Studios take on the X-men to expect any kind of direction.

[Dboi2001]

He's correct in that Wasp was also PoC (Asian-American I think). But even so, that's one out of six (I'm not counting Fury, he wasn't an Avenger) so it's not exactly a melting pot of culture lmao. And if I'm being cynical, I think the only reason she was Asian American was for Millar to fan cast her as Lucy Liu who was a popular actress at the time. As he did with Sam Jackson/Fury.

are you cynical about the Mcu? And Waps calls out Fury for picking Lucy Liu solely because she is asian. Millar also made Stark latino. Also I feel Sam Jackson Fury was more Hitch because in Ultimate X Men Fury looks nothing like Jackson

[Jack The Tripper]

Then i guess Perlmutter thinks all white people look the same too. You act Feige isn’t a businessman. Why did marvel wait until after wonder woman to confirm captain marvel? Like yeah if the only superheroine movies we’re Electra and Catwoman no wonder it took them long

Listen man, I'm just stating info that is readily available on the internet re: Perlmutter. I'm making no illegitimate defences of Feige. The facts are that he wasn't in full control of Marvel Studios until around 2015, and even then he was answering to Bob Iger officially. It isn't fair to dump full blame on him for lack of diversity when he has infamously had to answer to notoriously problematic CEO Ike Perlmutter. The reason that Black Widow is only getting a solo film now is because of Perlmutter, the reason Iron man 3's main villain was Aldrich Killian and not Maya Hansen was because of Perlmutter. I'm literally giving you a timeline of when Feige stopped answering to Perlmutter. In 2015/2016, Perlmutter no longer had control over the movies - THAT is why Captain Marvel was announced after Wonder Woman. Stop ignoring comments just to fit your own narrative.

There is plenty to criticise Feige for, but don't stand up for the billionaire sexist and racist that stopped him doing things. It ain't a good look.

at this point the mcu is its own thing different from either 616 or 1610 but stark most certainly is more like 1610

I'll admit that Stark's character seems more like Ultimate Stark, but I'd praise RDJ for that moreso due to the improv aspect of the script. Obviously the mcu is its own thing now, but the storylines that it adapts are primarily 616 based. That goes for phase 1 as well, come to think of it.

regardless if that’s the case why make Valk black and gay? why make Fury black? Why make Mar Vell a woman? Why make the Ancient One white?

I don't understand what you're saying here? Are you asking this in retalliation to what I said about Perlmutter? If so, the only say he would have had was on Fury being black and possibly Ancient One being white. Samuel Jackson is a big name who had a good box office record, and Ancient One being white as you said, unfortunately panders to the Chinese market (which I hate, but that's what big movie studios are doing sadly). Either way, neither of them had the lead roles in their movies. Perlmutter was not consulted for the other examples you stated because by that point Feige no longer answered to him.

How is the mcu more important? None of these movies are important they’re action movies

I said it has had more of an important effect on society in relation to its efforts in diversity. Black Panther and Captain Marvel are testament to that. Anyway, as I said, wrong thread.

I’m showing that corporate movie companies can include diversity

Okay, no one disagreed with you on that. In fact, you're the one that said Marvel doesn't, despite the fact that, as a movie studio, they do. And they are clearly attempting to do more. It's pointless arguing with you though, because I know from a past debate with you that you don't look forward to Jane Foster Thor because her comic pushed an "SJW Agenda".

I never called anyone a shill. don’t put words in my mouth. All i’m saying is whenever i criticize feige it always gets deflected from him

Surprisingly, your comments implied it. Just because you don't say something doesn't mean you aren't implying it. Yeah because you're criticising him for the wrong things. And also creating a thread just to criticise the guy on a topic that people generally have hopes for. You have created a thread that is a trojan horse for your negative opinion, just to try and argue with people about why they're excited about something they deem as positive. Your past threads have often done this. You seem have a bone to pick with the MCU and you just can't seem to move on and let people enjoy things without questioning them about it. I don't understand it.

[Jack The Tripper]

Something which comes to my mind thinking back to how the MCU was formed and how it managed to turn the Guardians of the Galaxy into a household name, is how vastly different the MCU take on the X-men might end up being, compared to what one would assume based on the comics.

I have the feeling some fans will be quite dissapointed or upset if their take on the X-men franchise doesn't follow the comics very strictly or even disregard the "hirarchy" of character popularity in which get chosen for roles, even though at this point it might end up being very possible.

For example the first mutant team could end up being the All New All Different cast, without Wolverine. But instead of going to Krakoa, they are gathered by Storm from various "drifters" as a team for a heist.
Their target being an organization named KRAKOA which deals in stolen cultural heritage art (including some pieces from the communtiy which raised her) to fund super soldier experiments. Further the post credit sequence showing Nick Fury talking to a "professor" about the teams exploit and the chance of recruiting them, but then it turns out he talks to a middle aged Jean Grey, with the next movie revealing the X-men were formed in the 80's and by present day Charles Xavier died of old age with Jean taking his job as leader of the unformed X-men.

Or the MCU X-men could be heavily inspired by X-men Evolution, simply because the director liked that cartoon the most of the X-men ones.

Simply put. It would be well adviced for everyone looking forward to the Marvel Studios take on the X-men to expect any kind of direction.

I think X-Men is different solely because they have a much, much bigger fanbase than that of GotG did before their movie. You could argue that it would be different due to the FOX X-Men films being a long running franchise itself, but I think X-Men have a much bigger canon to draw from! I hope that's the case anyway!

[Jack The Tripper]

are you cynical about the Mcu? And Waps calls out Fury for picking Lucy Liu solely because she is asian. Millar also made Stark hispanic/Italian. Also I feel Sam Jackson Fury was more Hitch because in Ultimate X Men Fury looks nothing like Jackson

Occasionally yeah. I too think it took way too long to introduce more diversity. I think its shared universe aspect definitely has its negative sides regarding smaller characters and status quo changes. I would like more diverse offerings in the form of darker stories, a la Logan (2017). But at the same time, I'm happy to see fun ass comic book films. Also happy to see this stuff thriving with the general public.

I don't know, Millar has always given me that egotistical vibe, so although it could have been a joke, I still feel like he was vying for those as possible castings. Same goes for Brad Pitt, Jonny Depp, and McConaughey. But that's just my reading of it. Again, it didn't seem to be much of his identity to be Italian American, just an easy way to make him different to 616 Stark. Could have been so about Hitch!

[Colossus1980]

Fox failed with both Cyclops and Storm.

Advantage: Feige

Too generous.