Which teen/YA shows from over the past 20+ years would/won't hold up today?

[Steel Inquisitor]

Talking about Buffy.....

There was also the episode when Jonathan went to the school’s bell tower to set up a sniper rifle.

That wouldn’t fly passed post-Columbine.

Come to think of it. There’s also the one when Jonathan changed and controlled reality to be “the star.” And had two twin women forced be his lovers.

There are many things Buffy did right, but there are a few which didn't. Xander Harris being one of them. He's aged so poorly over everything. In the comics he went onto date Dawn.

[SiegePerilous02]

There are many things Buffy did right, but there are a few which didn't. Xander Harris being one of them. He's aged so poorly over everything. In the comics he went onto date Dawn.

Xander's entire "Nice Guy" routine is weird. Looking at the show, I can see why modern viewers especially would be turned off by him in the early seasons. Despite his good qualities, he acts like an entitled *******. Not a good look when he is apparently Whedon's avatar (and the original planned love interest before Angel was written into the show). Just look at his reaction to Buffy letting him down very gently in "Prophecy Girl." But him growing up and maturing as the series went on, to valuing Buffy as a friend first and foremost, is very rewarding. Maybe not what Whedon initially intended (or wanted?) but it works out better.

Not the comics though. Those things suck in general, but I'm not sure what the hell is going on with the Dawn pairing.

[Will Evans]

I don’t mind Xander going with post-high school Dawn.

They were 6 years apart at most.


As opposed to Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike.

[SiegePerilous02]

I don’t mind Xander going with post-high school Dawn.

They were 6 years apart at most.


As opposed to Buffy/Angel and Buffy/Spike.

I think it's weirder because Trachtenberg was an actual underage teenager when she first started playing Dawn, whereas both the actor playing Xander and the character was very visibly in his 20s. And he viewed her as a younger sister, and the character as written was initially meant to be younger than Michelle Trachtenberg was at the time.

Gellar at least was visibly 18+ when playing a high schooler (filled with other 20 somethings that looked the same age as Angel lol) so there's less of a disconnect.

[caj]

I voted for One Tree Hill.

I remember it came out the same year as The O.C, but no one was talking about it. But it grew a nice following and had some really nice storylines.

Two brothers who were raised by different mothers but with the same obnoxious father in the same town. Plus, the brothers were rivals on the basketball team. One was given everything and the other grew up with his uncle as a father figure.

For at least the first five years, it was a great show. I know several people who didn't watch it while it was on the air who have binge watched it and kicked themselves for missing it when it first came on.

[Valentis]

I think it's weirder because Trachtenberg was an actual underage teenager when she first started playing Dawn, whereas both the actor playing Xander and the character was very visibly in his 20s. And he viewed her as a younger sister, and the character as written was initially meant to be younger than Michelle Trachtenberg was at the time.

Gellar at least was visibly 18+ when playing a high schooler (filled with other 20 somethings that looked the same age as Angel lol) so there's less of a disconnect.

Dawn is the key. Buffy is the Key. Dawn no longer matters.

Dawn's creation and conception was the most outlandish thing in Buffy.

[SiegePerilous02]

Dawn is the key. Buffy is the Key. Dawn no longer matters.

Dawn's creation and conception was the most outlandish thing in Buffy.

I think it worked if we go by the assumption that the monks used some of Buffy's DNA/blood or whatever to make Dawn as it seems to be implied. I wonder if it would have been better if she'd have been in the series since day 1, but that begs the question of what they would do with her for the first four seasons.

Her key status having **** all to do with the rest of the series arcs was pretty bad lol.

[Will Evans]

I think it worked if we go by the assumption that the monks used some of Buffy's DNA/blood or whatever to make Dawn as it seems to be implied. I wonder if it would have been better if she'd have been in the series since day 1, but that begs the question of what they would do with her for the first four seasons.

Her key status having **** all to do with the rest of the series arcs was pretty bad lol.

They could have had her live with Buffy’s dad the first four years.

Speaking of which, Buffy’s dad is the most mysterious part of the series.
He showed up once in the first season. Then was in the alternate-dream-could-all-this-be-in-her-head-Episode. And that’s it.

You’d think he’d show up after Joyce died.

[SiegePerilous02]

They could have had her live with Buffy’s dad the first four years.

Speaking of which, Buffy’s dad is the most mysterious art of the series.
He showed up once in the first season. Then was in the alternate-dream-could-all-this-be-in-her-head-Episode. And that’s it.

You’d think he’d show up after Joyce died.

I feel like they just had no need for him, which makes me wonder why they bothered to include him at all. Joyce being a widower at the beginning of the series wouldn't impact things that much differently.

Or the monk spell made him a jerk for some reason. Lol it's Dawn's fault daddy doesn't love her or Buffy.

[Ra-El]

Xander's entire "Nice Guy" routine is weird. Looking at the show, I can see why modern viewers especially would be turned off by him in the early seasons. Despite his good qualities, he acts like an entitled *******. Not a good look when he is apparently Whedon's avatar (and the original planned love interest before Angel was written into the show). Just look at his reaction to Buffy letting him down very gently in "Prophecy Girl." But him growing up and maturing as the series went on, to valuing Buffy as a friend first and foremost, is very rewarding. Maybe not what Whedon initially intended (or wanted?) but it works out better.

Not the comics though. Those things suck in general, but I'm not sure what the hell is going on with the Dawn pairing.

Xander is one of the reasons I like Angel more that BTVS, he is so annoying. Compared with Gunn, who also have the role of the "brash guy who says uncomfortable truths", he is even worse, Gunn never come off as if he enjoy saying the harsh stuff to his friends, while Xander clealy liked when he could have a "I told you" moment. Plus Gunn is useful.

[SiegePerilous02]

Xander is one of the reasons I like Angel more that BTVS, he is so annoying. Compared with Gunn, who also have the role of the "brash guy who says uncomfortable truths", he is even worse, Gunn never come off as if he enjoy saying the harsh stuff to his friends, while Xander clealy liked when he could have a "I told you" moment. Plus Gunn is useful.

Yes Gunn is underrated. Most of Angel's crew is.

I honestly like them as a group more than the Scoobies. By the last two seasons of BTVS, I kind of got fed up with the whole cast aside from Faith when she showed up. Aside from Connor, I didn't actively dislike any of the AtS cast. I got frustrated with some of the plot lines for them (CORDELIA), but I didn't start hating them.

[AnakinFlair]

Of these I've only watched and am a fan of Buffy. I think Buffy is a mixed bag of things that still resonate extremely well and things that have aged very poorly. Overall the first five seasons at least are very strong with some classic episodes and arcs, but there is the fact that the majority of the cast and extras are white in a setting that doesn't make much sense for it to be so. And the few POCs we get aren't treated that well (Kendra getting killed off early, basically no black characters that are prominent or survive until Wood and Ronna in the last season).

Willow is a lesbian, which was groundbreaking and important, but since it was made in the early 2000s the idea of her being bisexual was likely never entertained even though it may make more sense for her character. Back then, it was "you're either one or the other." And male homosexuality is treated as more of a punchline; see Andrew, or Xander freaking out when Larry comes out to him (though Larry for his part was pretty cool)

I'm a diehard Bangel shipper, but the age difference was poorly planned. I don't know if they intended Angel to be 26 when he was turned that early in the production (he "reads" as 18-20 range and doesn't look any older than the other 20 somethings attending Sunnydale high, so it's weird) or if it's something they had to deal with when the cemented his human age in his own show and Boreanaz wasn't able to pass any younger at that point. But it's very inappropriate and the one thing I'd change about their romance. Thankfully I mainly ship them after they break up and if Angel becomes human the age difference isn't a factor anymore.

And of course with Spuffy, there is the age difference + literally everything else involved in it that does not hold up in this day and age in a post #MeToo world.

I think I remember an interview or an article recently on Buffy that said Joss had wanted Willow to be bisexual, but the network wouldn't allow it.

Talking about Buffy.....

There was also the episode when Jonathan went to the school’s bell tower to set up a sniper rifle.

That wouldn’t fly passed post-Columbine.

Actually....

'Earshot', the clocktower episode in Season 3, was scheduled to happen a week after the Columbine shootings happened. WB actually delayed airing of the episode until right before Season 4 premiered several months later.

I feel like they just had no need for him, which makes me wonder why they bothered to include him at all. Joyce being a widower at the beginning of the series wouldn't impact things that much differently.

Or the monk spell made him a jerk for some reason. Lol it's Dawn's fault daddy doesn't love her or Buffy.

Was the dad in the movie? Joss may have wanted continuity from the movie, then decided he didn't need the dad anymore. But yeah, after Joyce and especially after Buffy died, you'd think he'd show up for Dawn.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Or perhaps with a bit of all of the girl power that Joss was pushing for the show having Buffy's dad come in and save the day or want them to move away with him could have messed with all of that so they just left him out, so that Buffy could do it on her own and all...

[Will Evans]

Or perhaps with a bit of all of the girl power that Joss was pushing for the show having Buffy's dad come in and save the day or want them to move away with him could have messed with all of that so they just left him out, so that Buffy could do it on her own and all...

I think it’s more to show Giles as Buffy’s substitute father figure

[Will Evans]

Or perhaps with a bit of all of the girl power that Joss was pushing for the show having Buffy's dad come in and save the day or want them to move away with him could have messed with all of that so they just left him out, so that Buffy could do it on her own and all...

I think it’s more to show Giles as Buffy’s substitute father figure