Which teen/YA shows from over the past 20+ years would/won't hold up today?

[AnakinFlair]

They never would have gotten rid of the coat. Aside from the bleached-blonde hair, it was Spike's signature.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I don't think that they were trying to make us think that Spike was a good person, he's a vampire with a soul, there's a difference. He'd worn the coat for many years so why should he hand it over to Wood, who just creeped me out as he acted like a slayer groupie...it's not like it had Wood's mom's name on it in big letters or anything...

[BushidoBlade2]

He'd worn the coat for many years so why should he hand it over to Wood

Because it was his mother's coat.

who just creeped me out as he acted like a slayer groupie

It's as if his mother was a slayer and he was raised by a watcher. Creepy indeed.

it's not like it had Wood's mom's name on it in big letters or anything...

Her blood was probably on it tho, because you know, Spike killed her.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

Buffy is more dated in its effects but the substance holds up for me. The more dated/questionable elements like Xander's characterization could be cleaned up/curtailed in a potential reboot.

The Buffy/Angel reboot by Boom Studios just seperated them from the start by having them be in seperate locations and seperate paths. They did meet in the Hellmouth crossover but don't really have romantic interest in each other yet. In Buffy's comic Angel's role is filled by a younger Robin Wood while Kate is set up to fills Buffy's role in Angel's comic. That doesn't mean Buffy and Angel can't be together in the future but not right now.

[SiegePerilous02]

They never would have gotten rid of the coat. Aside from the bleached-blonde hair, it was Spike's signature.

Better characters with substance got by without signatures.

I don't think that they were trying to make us think that Spike was a good person, he's a vampire with a soul, there's a difference. He'd worn the coat for many years so why should he hand it over to Wood, who just creeped me out as he acted like a slayer groupie...it's not like it had Wood's mom's name on it in big letters or anything...

They were trying to pass it off as him being reformed, when he wasn't. Joss said they "didn't want to demonize rapists," a weird message for his "feminist" show's final season.The writing was better when he showed up in Angel's last season where having a soul wasn't a simple way to become good and he didn't have a lady around to impress. he started to do good simply because it was the right thing to do.

He could stop wearing it. It's a completely fake persona he puts on to seem tough anyway. Show some actual character growth post-soul by giving it back to his victim's son (who was orphaned by his actions). Wood is not a Slayer groupie, he was born into the life. He's not a favorite character of mine, but he's in no way the ******* here. How is he creepy while the bleached blond little panty sniffer isn't?

Her blood was probably on it tho, because you know, Spike killed her.

Her blood, plus the blood of a lot of others (humans and demons alike). He also lived in a crypt.

it probably smells dank as hell by this point, is what I'm saying.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I would think that Spike had washed the coat and his clothes just like everybody else so her blood probably hadn't been on the coat in years, he wears it as a trophy and by the time that Wood showed up it was his iconic look, they're not going to change him that much that late in the game, it'd be like changing his hair color...

The creepy part wasn't that he was a slayers kid or raised by a watcher, more of how he only seemed interested in Buffy and then Faith because they were slayers, when Buffy said no he went after Faith instead, how he took control and split BUffy and the Scoobies up...creepy...

[SiegePerilous02]

I would think that Spike had washed the coat and his clothes just like everybody else so her blood probably hadn't been on the coat in years, he wears it as a trophy and by the time that Wood showed up it was his iconic look, they're not going to change him that much that late in the game, it'd be like changing his hair color...

The creepy part wasn't that he was a slayers kid or raised by a watcher, more of how he only seemed interested in Buffy and then Faith because they were slayers, when Buffy said no he went after Faith instead, how he took control and split BUffy and the Scoobies up...creepy...

I mean if the show's ending anyway, and they want to have good character writing and distinction between his souled and unsouled personas, they should have gotten rid of it. But fanservice trumps writing and story logic, so we got him donning his fake persona again so he can be what Buffy "needs." The other characters (on both shows) don't rely on such gimmicks as a crutch.

Wood didn't split the group up. Buffy did it her damn self by coming up with an insane idea that would get more people killed, and have no logical reason for thinking the First was guarding some sort of weapon without proof. But this is season 7 writing where Buffy is right no matter how insane she seems and Spike is her #1 supporter, so the writing has Caleb and the First tell Buffy exactly where the Scythe is and then she goes and gets it. By herself, so bringing everybody there was a dumb plan after all.

[Will Evans]

I would think that Spike had washed the coat and his clothes just like everybody else so her blood probably hadn't been on the coat in years, he wears it as a trophy and by the time that Wood showed up it was his iconic look, they're not going to change him that much that late in the game, it'd be like changing his hair color...

The creepy part wasn't that he was a slayers kid or raised by a watcher, more of how he only seemed interested in Buffy and then Faith because they were slayers, when Buffy said no he went after Faith instead, how he took control and split BUffy and the Scoobies up...creepy...

You may as well condemn original Buffy for going with vampires Angel then Spike.

[Powerboy]

For over two decades, we have had a lot of shows geared towards teenagers and young people in their 20s. However, as society has changed, what was tolerated and accepted yesterday may not be accepted today. So, what shows would be acceptable and what wouldn't be?

The only one of those shows I watched was Buffy. For me, teen shows would be ones from waaaay back.

I suspect the ones that generally would still resonate the most would be the most recent and least would be ones from furthest back.

In the culture we're in today, as people have pointed out, even something as relatively recent as Buffy has problems.

I think some watching today would wonder why there's any big deal about Willow realizing she's gay. Why is male homosexuality played as a joke? Why is it okay for Buffy to be an abuser in a relationship just because she's female and the victim is male? Why is it okay for a sixteen year old girl to be involved with a guy whose body stopped aging at 26 and who is really two centuries old? Obviously, anyone with an ounce of historical understanding knows it's because it's not the present and social norms are not objective reality. They are concepts in our minds and they change. Good luck finding those people.

Oh, cell phones. That one is funny because, even in 1996, a group of high school kids would have cell phones. Joss Whedon said they had an entire meeting about that and the problem with the scoobies just whipping out cell phones all the time and calling Buffy for help. So, rather than some explanation about cell phones not working on a hell mouth, they decided to just ignore the existence of cell phones.

[SiegePerilous02]

The only one of those shows I watched was Buffy. For me, teen shows would be ones from waaaay back.

I suspect the ones that generally would still resonate the most would be the most recent and least would be ones from furthest back.

In the culture we're in today, as people have pointed out, even something as relatively recent as Buffy has problems.

I think some watching today would wonder why there's any big deal about Willow realizing she's gay. Why is male homosexuality played as a joke? Why is it okay for Buffy to be an abuser in a relationship just because she's female and the victim is male? Why is it okay for a sixteen year old girl to be involved with a guy whose body stopped aging at 26 and who is really two centuries old? Obviously, anyone with an ounce of historical understanding knows it's because it's not the present and social norms are not objective reality. They are concepts in our minds and they change. Good luck finding those people.

Oh, cell phones. That one is funny because, even in 1996, a group of high school kids would have cell phones. Joss Whedon said they had an entire meeting about that and the problem with the scoobies just whipping out cell phones all the time and calling Buffy for help. So, rather than some explanation about cell phones not working on a hell mouth, they decided to just ignore the existence of cell phones.

So many plots would have been solved with cell phones lol.

What's weird about the Willow thing is that in a modern context, her sexuality would be treated as normal as it is. It's kind of what makes the Buffy reboot comics sort of weird, it's more modern and progressive but some of the characters lose their spark. Willow already seems very confident in the current comics when seeing her grow into that was what made her interesting in the show and her arc rewarding. Same with Cordelia apparently being less of a high school "mean girl," it's perhaps more modern but it's doesn't feel like Cordy. Some of the other updates the comics are making that I've heard of seem like good ideas on paper at least (Angel being about 18-19 when changed but otherwise still himself, Kendra's role getting beefed up).

As for the female abuser thing...eh, I think Buffy got most of that relationships failings dumped on her in season 7, disproportionately so. She definitely had a hand in how toxic it was, but the physical abuse was a two way street and there was a LOT of psychological abuse/manipulation from Spike's end on top of it. Hell, her most alarming physical outburst against him seems less bad when you remember the infamous "balcony" scene a few scenes prior where he gives her anal and she seems distressed the whole time and her consent was iffy to start with.

[Powerboy]

So many plots would have been solved with cell phones lol.

What's weird about the Willow thing is that in a modern context, her sexuality would be treated as normal as it is. It's kind of what makes the Buffy reboot comics sort of weird, it's more modern and progressive but some of the characters lose their spark. Willow already seems very confident in the current comics when seeing her grow into that was what made her interesting in the show and her arc rewarding. Same with Cordelia apparently being less of a high school "mean girl," it's perhaps more modern but it's doesn't feel like Cordy. Some of the other updates the comics are making that I've heard of seem like good ideas on paper at least (Angel being about 18-19 when changed but otherwise still himself, Kendra's role getting beefed up).

As for the female abuser thing...eh, I think Buffy got most of that relationships failings dumped on her in season 7, disproportionately so. She definitely had a hand in how toxic it was, but the physical abuse was a two way street and there was a LOT of psychological abuse/manipulation from Spike's end on top of it. Hell, her most alarming physical outburst against him seems less bad when you remember the infamous "balcony" scene a few scenes prior where he gives her anal and she seems distressed the whole time and her consent was iffy to start with.

Wow, another reboot rather than a continuation. Zero interest here. I want to know what the slayers are doing sixteen years later. Is Buffy a mentor now? Is Angel still in love with her now that she's almost forty years old? A restart just bypasses all the real interest of the continued progression of the Buffyverse.

On the teenager thing, I started watching Cobra Kai on Netflix. I lost interest when I found out there's already a second season and a planned third, hence a never-ending soap opera. But they certainly had no problem with having characters who are cruel, rich girls and guys who just want into girls' pants. Worked a thousand years ago. Worked in the 1990s. Works now.

[Valentis]

They never would have gotten rid of the coat. Aside from the bleached-blonde hair, it was Spike's signature.

Imagine if Angel walked around with Jenny Calender's belongings around Giles. Spike is a character that shows little remorse for his crimes unlike Angel.

Spike should have died in season 4. He ruined the show. Season 7 of Buffy is a Spuffy wetdream.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

There's no comparison between the two, Robin Wood never existed until that final season and is a MUCH more minor character than Giles and why would Angel run around with Jenny's things, what of hers would he possibly have wanted. Angel only showed remorse because of his soul, otherwise he had none. Spike helped to make the show great.

[SiegePerilous02]

There's no comparison between the two, Robin Wood never existed until that final season and is a MUCH more minor character than Giles and why would Angel run around with Jenny's things, what of hers would he possibly have wanted. Angel only showed remorse because of his soul, otherwise he had none. Spike helped to make the show great.

But that's the whole point though. Vampires without souls are inherently warped and evil. They aren't capable of remorse. Even a soul doesn't magically make someone a good person, it just gives them the capacity to choose. Angel's story is more authentic for that reason, he struggles with falling back into old habits because he still has evil instincts mixed with a flawed human soul

Contrary to popular belief, Spike without a soul never displayed selfless tendencies or remorse and is only slightly less sadistic than Angelus. He was never good, and even his quest to get a soul was selfishly motivated, he didn't really grasp what he was signing up for until he got it. His main motive was getting Buffy back regardless if she wanted to be near him or not. Having a soul would force her to acknowledge him again (and the bastard got what he wanted). He gradually ruined the show the more and more focus he got.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

So many plots would have been solved with cell phones lol.

What's weird about the Willow thing is that in a modern context, her sexuality would be treated as normal as it is. It's kind of what makes the Buffy reboot comics sort of weird, it's more modern and progressive but some of the characters lose their spark. Willow already seems very confident in the current comics when seeing her grow into that was what made her interesting in the show and her arc rewarding. Same with Cordelia apparently being less of a high school "mean girl," it's perhaps more modern but it's doesn't feel like Cordy. Some of the other updates the comics are making that I've heard of seem like good ideas on paper at least (Angel being about 18-19 when changed but otherwise still himself, Kendra's role getting beefed up).

As for the female abuser thing...eh, I think Buffy got most of that relationships failings dumped on her in season 7, disproportionately so. She definitely had a hand in how toxic it was, but the physical abuse was a two way street and there was a LOT of psychological abuse/manipulation from Spike's end on top of it. Hell, her most alarming physical outburst against him seems less bad when you remember the infamous "balcony" scene a few scenes prior where he gives her anal and she seems distressed the whole time and her consent was iffy to start with.

I think the Boom reboot characterization of the Scoobies would've worked better with the Movie Buffy than the TV show Buffy.