Saying Iron Man wasn't well known before 2008 is ridiculous (comics)

[Tony Stark]

Wonder Woman certainly. But The Flash and Green Lantern? Well their costumes and props are iconic but the people behind those costumes aren't so. For a lot of people The Flash is Wally West, for others it's Barry Allen. For a lot of people GL is Hal Jordan, for others it's Kyle Rayner, for others it's John Stewart.



First and foremost, luck. Which to be fair, everyone needs a good deal of and without luck even Superman and Batman would have fallen.

Second, comics from the '60s to about the 90s or so, had a higher readership than any time after that. So that meant that titles could breathe longer. So even if Iron Man never broke into mainstream in the '80s with the big boys like X-Men and Spider-Man, he was still able to dodge cancellation. David Michelinie wrote Iron Man and then moved on to writing Spider-Man. Usually when writers do a run on two or more characters you tend to see crossovers (sometimes a little, sometimes a lot) between them, but in Michelinie's entire run on ASM, he never once referred to or introduced Iron Man or did anything like that. That indicates how low IM was compared to Spider-Man in that period.

Third, Iron Man is a big-league Avenger, next to Cap and Thor, so he was important in the wider continuity sense as a member of a super-team.

Fourth, editorial interest. Iron Man was given many second chances and many college tries. He was a character Marvel entirely owned and as such wasn't subject to disputes like with other Marvel creations, so that made Marvel invest a great deal in keeping him afloat, should Kirby and Ditko get the lawyers. IM was given support that for instance wasn't always extended to titles with say a female protagonist or a POC and so on.

Fifth, Iron Man's comics were never entirely great but they weren't outright bad, so they managed to provide readers a good steady consistent supply of the same old and same old, a bit like Garfield (which aesthetically is not considered a great comic strip at all). So that helps with longevity too.

Longevity like everything else isn't some objective criteria for excellence. The fact is that the history of comics is filled with great titles and characters that never got a fair chance, never got marketed, or had owners who didn't understand the situation. Take Fawcett's Captain Marvel, in the '40s he was the biggest superhero in the planet, outsold Superman, innovated in multimedia adaptations and yet a poorly arranged legal battle led them to drop out of the hero business. Had Fawcett had better lawyers, they could have defended and kept a hold on their property and who knows, maybe Superman goes under and Billy Batson becomes the cultural touchstone for a superhero that Superman only really became in the '50s.

So to get past all of the verbiage. Iron Man has lasted from 1968 until 2008 because of luck, editorial pushing it out and halfway descent comics. Lol ok.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

So to get past all of the verbiage. Iron Man has lasted from 1968 until 2008 because of luck, editorial pushing it out and halfway descent comics. Lol ok.

That about sums it up, yeah. That’s all you need. Iron Man can be considered the superhero IP version of failing upwards.

[Tony Stark]

That about sums it up, yeah. That’s all you need. Iron Man can be considered the superhero IP version of failing upwards.

ROTFLMAO! You are entertaining at least. You pass your opinions off like facts. It's very FOX newsish. Also when it comes to merchandising. I know he doesn't make as much as Spider-Man, but take a look around next time you go to a store and see all the Iron Man merchandise that is out and gets sold. Iron Man does serious business.

[Panic]

The answer is simply no, the song is not based on the character from Marvel, Black Sabbath simply made up a character for a song, and that's it.

Now that I think of it... were the comics of Marvel published in the United Kingdom in 1970? Was the "Marvel Super Heroes" animated shorts aired there? Did Black Sabbath even know that there was a comic book character with this name when they wrote the song?

They were. You could get the US originals at newsagents, though there were rarely multiple copies of issues stocked; The Avengers comics were usually reprinted in black & white in the Marvel UK reprint comics. I don't remember the Iron Man cartoon being on in the 70's, though.

[Iron Man]

Hate to pull a "I liked this thing before it was cool" but Ill always be happy I bored the Iron Man train before the movie came out, although it was admittedly right before.

I was in high school with my comic book reading buddy and he was getting me into it. He showed me the first issue of the brand new Civil War event and was going on and on about how great Captain America. Being the big contrarian I was as a teenager I decided to pull for Shellhead's side...

and the rest is history.

[DrNewGod]

The character had been around for almost 50 years by the time the movie came out. Obviously he had staying power in the MU or would have been discarded long ago. Sure he had a 4 year run with Denny O'Neill and Demon in a Bottle. But two great story arcs aren't enough to keep a character around. Tony's solo title had been around since 1968.

Until the MCU came along, I would have ranked Iron Man (as well as Captain America and Thor) about the way that I would DC's Flash. A character that's almost never gone out of print, and not utterly unheard of in the wider public consciousness (t-shirts and what not), but nowhere near the likes of Spider-Man or Batman.

[Iron Man]

Until the MCU came along, I would have ranked Iron Man (as well as Captain America and Thor) about the way that I would DC's Flash. A character that's almost never gone out of print, and not utterly unheard of in the wider public consciousness (t-shirts and what not), but nowhere near the likes of Spider-Man or Batman.

This pretty much sums it up. Growing up in the 90's the big names was always Superman, Batman, Spiderman and the X-Men. I would put the Avengers and the rest of the Justice League as a tier below them.

I am glad that the Avenger's and lesser heroes have their chance to shine though. Crazy to walk around and see Iron Man tshirts everywhere.

[Blind Wedjat]

I didn't read comics when I was a kid, but I vaguely remember an Iron Man animated series. It may have been the 60s show (I remember seeing War Machine in it too, so correct me if I'm wrong).

Growing up Iron Man was not as visible as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Spider-Man, Hulk, the X-Men or the Fantastic Four. Even the Flash, Aquaman and Green Lantern I think were more visible.

Sure he was prominent for comic book readers and may have had some exposure in other media, but I don't think he was well known.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

ROTFLMAO! You are entertaining at least.

Aw shucks, thanks.

You pass your opinions off like facts.

I pass my opinions like they are opinions.

See this:

I think the reverse applies here....

If we think about the greatest Iron Man stories, I don't think they would measure to the 50 greatest Spider-Man stories in terms of quality, fame, importance, and influence. Leave along the 50 greatest X-Men stories.

I mean which of Iron Man's stories is on the level of Frank Miller's run on Daredevil, Walt Simonson's run on The Mighty Thor, or Englehart on Captain America?

The words "I think" make it clear that it's my opinion. I do try and ground it with some evidence, a lot of it is empirical, i.e. stuff like how come Michelinie didn't cross elements of IM into his ASM run when it was totally organic for him to have done so? If IM was always so big, how come Tony Stark was a no-show in the biggest Marvel story of the 80s -- SECRET WARS, the one comic that did more to double and reintroduce new readers to Marvel stable since the end of the Lee-Kirby era?

But ultimately it's my opinion. That's what this thread is about people exchanging opinions. Someone offering an opinion you disagree with isn't passing their opinions as facts, they are doing their best to argue their point and make the other person understand why they think the way they do.

Also when it comes to merchandising. I know he doesn't make as much as Spider-Man, but take a look around next time you go to a store and see all the Iron Man merchandise that is out and gets sold. Iron Man does serious business.

He does business since RDJ came in, but he wasn't that big before which is kind of what this thread is about. Iron Man before RDJ. IM wasn't a merchandise star back then.

And again the success of RDJ hasn't translated and gone back to the comics. IM in comics has a slightly elevated profile than he did before RDJ but more or less he's still the Marvel hero with the weakest rogues and lamest supporting cast. That hasn't changed.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

I agree that Tony had enough staying power for his first series to last longer than 400 issues, and that doesn't make him one of the lesser known characters like Shang Chi.

[Tony Stark]

IM in comics has a slightly elevated profile than he did before RDJ but more or less he's still the Marvel hero with the weakest rogues and lamest supporting cast. That hasn't changed.

Well according to you he survived from 1968 until 2008 with only luck, editorial forcing the book out there, the weakest rogues gallery and lamest supporting cast. I would say that is pretty damn good to have survived on those things (again according to you) for this long.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

I agree that Tony had enough staying power for his first series to last longer than 400 issues...

The more interesting question is how is that Iron Man despite never being a top seller or especially storied across the comics readership got to 400 issues while there hasn't been a single female superhero in 616 who has made it to 100 issues? The only Marvel female hero who made it to more than 100 issues is Spider-Girl, the daughter of Peter Parker in an alternate timeline.

She-Hulk under John Byrne's pen ran for 60 issues and is the longest continuous ongoing with a female hero in 616 continuity.

Why is that Iron Man was nurtured, given second chances, support, and faith in the higher ups that eventually someday, Iron Man will become a major Marvel hero, while that same courtesy was never extended to any Marvel female heroine for most of its history, and certainly not by 2008? The same applies to Black Panther at least until Christopher Priest's run. How come a POC character never got the support and backing that Iron Man did. The white male, cod-James Bond knockoff got endless second chances, while other more diverse characters didn't get a foot in.

That's why "voting with your wallet" always has been and always will be a BS excuse and argument and defense. The truth is some votes with wallet are counted for more than others. Iron Man didn't make all that much money for Marvel and yet he was allowed to flourish while other characters weren't.

[Triniking1234]

None of us work at Marvel to know why they kept him around but using him the fact he's white doesn't work. Even Thor went on hiatus or got cancelled while Iron Man kept going.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

None of us work at Marvel to know why they kept him around but using him the fact he's white doesn't work.

It can't be discounted either.

Even Thor went on hiatus or got cancelled while Iron Man kept going.

Going on hiatus or being cancelled briefly doesn't contradict my point. My point is that some Marvel titles get more push and support from editorial than others do, and it's not simply a case the sales are high and the audienced voted for it.

[Triniking1234]

It can't be discounted either.



Going on hiatus or being cancelled briefly doesn't contradict my point. My point is that some Marvel titles get more push and support from editorial than others do, and it's not simply a case the sales are high and the audienced voted for it.

Well yeah, that's because someone thinks the character is worth it in the bigger scheme outside of bad floppy-sales performance. That's why characters like Hawkeye, Carol Danvers, Daredevil, Frank Castle, America Chavez, Squirrel Girl, Spider-Gwen, etc. get more chances.

I think people are just under-selling how popular Tony was before the movie.