View Poll Results: Should Diana and Veronica Be Friends?

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  • Yes

    2 13.33%
  • No

    11 73.33%
  • Unsure

    2 13.33%
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  1. #1
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    Default Veronica Cale Should Have Been Wonder Woman’s Ally

    I don’t know about you, but I honestly believe that Greg Rucka made a mistake creating Veronica Cale as a “female Lex Luthor” to challenge Wonder Woman philosophically. Personally, I believe that Diana and Veronica should have been best friends and that a friendship could have served as a mirror opposite to Superman and Lex Luthor’s rivalry.

  2. #2
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Think that Myndi Mayer would have dibs on that role.

    Maybe that’d be the route to take the Rebirth version of Cale given she was an update of Golden Age Paula von Gunther.

  3. #3
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    I do like Cale as a villain but thinking it over, she might work just as well as a Seto Kaiba-like character. Someone who is rivals with the hero but isn't a villain.

  4. #4

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    They could always transition her to an antihero status.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    I’m for adversary and occasionally an uneasy ally depending on the situation.

  6. #6
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Have to agree with WonderScott. There is an ideological core and uneasy truth in Veronica Cale as she is set up, as a woman who has succeeded under the patriarchy, has bought into it, and become a staunch defender of both it and capitalism. It reminds me of Margaret Thatcher or Ann Coulter—it wouldn't surprise me if Rucka was inspired by Ann Coulter when he created Veronica Cale.

    Within the Batman mythos, Veronica Cale would function very well as a rival and friend more than an adversary. But in the Wonder Woman mythos? She pretty much has to be an adversary, because Wonder Woman is about a changed society.

    I think that's also why a lot of writers (outside of Rucka and Wilson) has shied away from using Veronica Cale, because Cale pretty much requires that you bring up the civilisation critique inherent in Wonder Woman. Heck, even Rucka dialed that back and tried to make the conflict more personal in Rebirth.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  7. #7
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Have to agree with WonderScott. There is an ideological core and uneasy truth in Veronica Cale as she is set up, as a woman who has succeeded under the patriarchy, has bought into it, and become a staunch defender of both it and capitalism. It reminds me of Margaret Thatcher or Ann Coulter—it wouldn't surprise me if Rucka was inspired by Ann Coulter when he created Veronica Cale.

    Within the Batman mythos, Veronica Cale would function very well as a rival and friend more than an adversary. But in the Wonder Woman mythos? She pretty much has to be an adversary, because Wonder Woman is about a changed society.

    I think that's also why a lot of writers (outside of Rucka and Wilson) has shied away from using Veronica Cale, because Cale pretty much requires that you bring up the civilisation critique inherent in Wonder Woman. Heck, even Rucka dialed that back and tried to make the conflict more personal in Rebirth.
    Thought Cale came off as a more believable villain in his second run than first, mainly because the more personal reasons were less of a stretch to go into supervillainy than her original ones.

  8. #8
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    You know what? I’ve changed my mind. I’m gonna make a Silver Age-style reinvention of Veronica Cale for my fanfiction stories.

  9. #9
    Incredible Member Psy-lock's Avatar
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    Never been a big fan of her as a villain, but being an ally seems OOC for her. I prefer her as an antagonistic figure but not a straight up villain, kinda like Jonah Jameson was to Spider-Man.

  10. #10
    Mighty Member Koriand'r's Avatar
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    I like her just the way she is, and second bringing back Myndi Mayer as a friend. The recent story with the Socialite reminded me what a friendship between Diana and Myndi would look like.

  11. #11
    Relaunched, not rebooted! SJNeal's Avatar
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    I appreciate the route Rucka took with Cale. She was pretty cold and ruthless in his first run, but he humanized her a bit in the second. Unfortunately he seems to be the only writer allowed to use her, so we probably won't see any more real growth until he decides to revisit her.
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  12. #12
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koriand'r View Post
    I like her just the way she is, and second bringing back Myndi Mayer as a friend. The recent story with the Socialite reminded me what a friendship between Diana and Myndi would look like.
    Yeah, I've come around to loving Veronica as she is and would third bringing back Myndi. Yeah her death was a classic, but we are so far removed from that and continuity is a mess anyway that it wouldn't matter much.

    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Have to agree with WonderScott. There is an ideological core and uneasy truth in Veronica Cale as she is set up, as a woman who has succeeded under the patriarchy, has bought into it, and become a staunch defender of both it and capitalism. It reminds me of Margaret Thatcher or Ann Coulter—it wouldn't surprise me if Rucka was inspired by Ann Coulter when he created Veronica Cale.

    Within the Batman mythos, Veronica Cale would function very well as a rival and friend more than an adversary. But in the Wonder Woman mythos? She pretty much has to be an adversary, because Wonder Woman is about a changed society.

    I think that's also why a lot of writers (outside of Rucka and Wilson) has shied away from using Veronica Cale, because Cale pretty much requires that you bring up the civilisation critique inherent in Wonder Woman. Heck, even Rucka dialed that back and tried to make the conflict more personal in Rebirth.
    With how she casually has innocent people killed (the people at the Pickett, the Little & Wynn leaker) or abused (Vanessa), no she would not. She'd just be regarded as a female version of someone like Rupert Thorne.

  13. #13
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    Veronica Cale was simply unnecessary.

    So many WW foes could have been revitalized and filled this role for Diana.

    Paula Von Gunther, Priscilla Rich, Draska Nishki, or Fausta Grables would all have been better choices than creating Veronica Cale.

  14. #14
    Astonishing Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    With how she casually has innocent people killed (the people at the Pickett, the Little & Wynn leaker) or abused (Vanessa), no she would not. She'd just be regarded as a female version of someone like Rupert Thorne.
    You're right about that. I was more thinking about the character concept behind Veronica Cale than her actual history in comics.

    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    Veronica Cale was simply unnecessary.

    So many WW foes could have been revitalized and filled this role for Diana.

    Paula Von Gunther, Priscilla Rich, Draska Nishki, or Fausta Grables would all have been better choices than creating Veronica Cale.
    I disagree. I view Veronica Cale as the true spiritual successor to Paula von Gunther, who is pretty much unworkable for modern Wonder Woman, as she is tied so strongly to the Second World War. She also has a character concept—the woman who has succeeded within patriarchy and acts as its defender—that is uniquely suited to Wonder Woman.
    Last edited by kjn; 09-08-2020 at 12:23 PM.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  15. #15
    Mighty Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scary harpy View Post
    Veronica Cale was simply unnecessary.

    So many WW foes could have been revitalized and filled this role for Diana.

    Paula Von Gunther, Priscilla Rich, Draska Nishki, or Fausta Grables would all have been better choices than creating Veronica Cale.
    I'd be fine with someone finding a way to use both Priscilla and Barbara but Paula (and I guess also Fausta but I think the last time she was notable was her 70s show appearance, so to a lesser degree) has too much baggage of being tied up with the Nazis that I think bringing her back would be rather pointless.

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