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  1. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulkout42 View Post
    I applaud his defense of his friend but Quesada will always be the target of my ire over OMD, not JMS.
    Reminds me of this old web-comic by the defunct "Comics Critics"
    http://comiccritics.com/2010/10/10/textual-harrasment/

    About how fans should be selective, targeted and proper in directing outrage at proper channels up the chain of command.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    Hmm I must have my wires crossed. It was 13 years ago.
    I remember it like it was yesterday (and also I save all these links for quick access so as to make and maintain archive).

    Thanks for the correction. Maybe I was thinking of an interview Quesada did where he said JMS was on board with undoing the marriage...?
    That was the famous CBR interviews Quesada did when OMIT came out.

    In general, with Quesada one is that he obviously likes the sound of his voice (which you know, comics, will give him a pass). He's also very sloppy in terms of detail, chronology, continuity and so on. He doesn't do his homework. He's also very self-serving and self-aggrandizing and looking at marketing/promotion. Add that up, and you have a unreliable narrator. His public comments over the years reveals a guy who often misreads the stuff he talks about. He also misrepresents his own history. I am not saying he's lying because given how slipshod he is with detail I can buy that he skims or forgets stuff. Like for instance, he often says that Ultimate Spider-Man proves the viability of Spider-Man as a teenager. Except you know when Bill Jemas pitched USM, Quesada didn't think it would work because John Byrne's Chapter One failed a year before. That's an example of his hypocrisy. Teenage Spider-Man wasn't inherently or constantly the lucrative version of Spider-Man, and Ultimate Spider-Man was greeted with justified skepticism by Quesada at the time but once it became successful (no thanks to him since it was Bill Jemas who believed in that), he was willing to use it as an example to justify his agenda.

    Quesada lacked grace as an Editor in Chief, and almost never accepted responsibility. During the entire time JMS wrote ASM in earlier years, he had a column called "cup o'joe" where he routinely said that the marriage was a mistake...and that's kind of a weird thing for an EIC to say when his own writer, who he hired and brought in and to whom he gave a free hand, both believes in it and is writing it well at the same time. On one hand you can say it's the Marvel spirit where disagreements can be shared publicly and comics are still done, all to show that there's no hard feeling, on the other hand it reads like an EIC trying to undermine the direction of his own writer (who again he hired). You see this with the X-Men too. When House of M came out, Quesada justified it by saying there were too many mutants, there were mutants in ghettoes, they were taking over and that goes against the entire point of them being a minority...which leaving aside the incoherence of that logic, ignores the fact that the stuff he's talking about happened in Grant Morrison's run, a writer Quesada hired and gave him a free hand, so if he had a problem with that, why didn't he speak up when Morrison was making those changes, and why Post-HoM does he act like he wasn't involved in those developments to start with? There's a total lack of irony and self-awareness with that guy.

  2. #167
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quesada lacked grace as an Editor in Chief, and almost never accepted responsibility. During the entire time JMS wrote ASM in earlier years, he had a column called "cup o'joe" where he routinely said that the marriage was a mistake...and that's kind of a weird thing for an EIC to say when his own writer, who he hired and brought in and to whom he gave a free hand, both believes in it and is writing it well at the same time. On one hand you can say it's the Marvel spirit where disagreements can be shared publicly and comics are still done, all to show that there's no hard feeling, on the other hand it reads like an EIC trying to undermine the direction of his own writer (who again he hired). You see this with the X-Men too. When House of M came out, Quesada justified it by saying there were too many mutants, there were mutants in ghettoes, they were taking over and that goes against the entire point of them being a minority...which leaving aside the incoherence of that logic, ignores the fact that the stuff he's talking about happened in Grant Morrison's run, a writer Quesada hired and gave him a free hand, so if he had a problem with that, why didn't he speak up when Morrison was making those changes, and why Post-HoM does he act like he wasn't involved in those developments to start with? There's a total lack of irony and self-awareness with that guy.
    I got the feeling with a lot of his more popular writers, he went and let them do whatever it is they wanted without any control, and then would later scramble to try to clean up what he saw as mistakes rather than just preventing it in the first place.

  3. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    I got the feeling with a lot of his more popular writers, he went and let them do whatever it is they wanted without any control, and then would later scramble to try to clean up what he saw as mistakes rather than just preventing it in the first place.
    He's a hypocrite then.

  4. #169
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    The entire JMS run was horrible except for a few pages where Peter got to talk to Uncle Ben at the end of a magical adventure (as most were at this time). That was really touching and well written.

  5. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrswing View Post
    The entire JMS run was horrible except for a few pages where Peter got to talk to Uncle Ben at the end of a magical adventure (as most were at this time). That was really touching and well written.
    He did good stories like Back In Black and 9/11, but The Other, OMD and Sins Past left a bad taste in my mouth ( although not to the extent of the Slott Run).

  6. #171
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    Is Skin Deep liked? How about the Fiona Avery co-written issues? The rest I dislike are usually mentioned, Mr. Parker Goes to Washington to a lesser extent, but I guess there's no much need in this case, considering the art.

  7. #172
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Is Skin Deep liked? How about the Fiona Avery co-written issues? The rest I dislike are usually mentioned, Mr. Parker Goes to Washington to a lesser extent, but I guess there's no much need in this case, considering the art.
    Deep Skin is ignored most of the time, the general reaction of the internet was "meh", not bad enougth to hate and not good enougth to be liked. It just existed to move then to the Avengers Tower
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  8. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
    Is Skin Deep liked? How about the Fiona Avery co-written issues? The rest I dislike are usually mentioned, Mr. Parker Goes to Washington to a lesser extent, but I guess there's no much need in this case, considering the art.
    I like the Fiona Avery issues a lot and it's found purchase, because Loki and Spider-Man surprisingly have good chemistry. Loki telling Spider-Man that he can call a favor from him anytime shows up, like Dan Slott alluded to it in the issue right before Go Down Swinging.

    JMS wrote the plot of those stories (IIRC) and it's basically the first time he tackled Thor characters, and while his run would do something quite different with Loki, it's kind of the ancestor to the modern anti-hero Loki that's now become the default of the character.

  9. #174
    Extraordinary Member TheCape's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I like the Fiona Avery issues a lot and it's found purchase, because Loki and Spider-Man surprisingly have good chemistry. Loki telling Spider-Man that he can call a favor from him anytime shows up, like Dan Slott alluded to it in the issue right before Go Down Swinging.

    JMS wrote the plot of those stories (IIRC) and it's basically the first time he tackled Thor characters, and while his run would do something quite different with Loki, it's kind of the ancestor to the modern anti-hero Loki that's now become the default of the character.
    Yeah that issue was pretty good, i supposed that the pairing came from the idea of both of then being trickters of a sorts.
    "Wow. You made Spider-Man sad, congratulations. I stabbed The Hulk last week"
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  10. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheCape View Post
    Yeah that issue was pretty good, i supposed that the pairing came from the idea of both of then being trickters of a sorts.
    The Loki issues had a lot of speculation with it. Because around the build-up to OMD, everyone thought Loki'd be the one to help Spider-Man with Aunt May and cause shenanigans. Instead they went with Mephisto and as JMS makes clear, Mephisto was Quesada's pick and not his. The "Call a favor from Loki" is a chekhov's gun that's still on the wall of the Spider-Man continuity, which Dan Slott confirmed near the end of his run...and eventually, I hope, someone comes and does a big payoff for that, because that's like a 16 year subplot at this point (but then Doom trying to save his mom's soul from hell was also something that lasted long). Slott also tied the favor from Loki with Mephisto, hinting that it could be used somewhere down the line vis-a-vis OMD.

    Anyway it's a good thing that Loki wasn't used for OMD and they used Mephisto instead...it would have ruined his reputation as a character just as OMD ruined Mephisto's (not that he had a reputation after all since his primary purpose before was to make Doctor Doom a face to his heel, worthless trash character that he is). In fact, JMS who could have brought in Loki and tied that up, didn't return to it at any point during his run on Spider-Man or even Thor (when as the previous writer of Spider-Man, he could have called for a crossover between Thor and ASM and use a pre-existing subplot) never touched on it.

  11. #176
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    Yes, I liked the way they handled Loki, those are the two issues I bought, not entirely written by JMS.

  12. #177
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    Yes, after the clone saga, the 2nd defalco run, which was horrible, and Mackie/Byrne that preceded it, his ASM was almost Roger stern/Peter David good. Except for Sins Past, OMD, and Morlun, those stories I dont enjoy too much.

  13. #178
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    General consensus: It was very polarizing.

  14. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
    My feelings as well. I really enjoyed this run, especially the new avengers and Civil War parts. I also loved the fact we finally got to read a grown, mature Peter Parker and not the idiot man child that so many try to write him as now a days. In addition I thought the science teacher was an interesting role to see Peter in and this run gave me one of my favorite moments, where Kingpin finally got what was coming to him.

    I have never and will never read OMD and yes, sins Past, is awful..........but overall I still really enjoy this run. To anyone on the fence give it a try!
    Cheers for agreeing with me.

  15. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    General consensus: It was very polarizing.
    It was. Same for Dan Slott.

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