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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Can you actually go ahead and dissect, you know deeper, to explain in full what you mean?
    To me it feels like he really writing Peter and MJ kind like they aged them too old and write them in a very weird 'sophisticated' way. Like I think it's the best shown in the first issues that he ever wrote which is his The Amazing Spider-Man Vol. 2 issue number 30 with how he destroyed a building just to vent his anger. That's a very weird moment for Spidey. I mean the guy just vent all out without caring because he wanted to pound a bad guy. Wow. I knew for some people that seems like how ordinary people deal with their stress, but even then it's weird because to me Spidey is not a guy who did it like that. And then there is the moment that I kind hated and that is how Spider-Man deals with the bullies and to me this is good because of my point and that is JMS really good at conveying his vision into his story. To me, that is not how Spider-Man deals with that kind of thing, he will deal it in a more silly way.

    And that's not even the next page where suddenly appeared an old man that he never met and suddenly he knew the best about our MC who already become hero for so long. I don’t like when a know-it-all character comes along to school the hero we’ve known so long, and all of a sudden it’s like that hero is incompetent and doesn’t measure up in the shadow of this mysterious new person that knows everything they don’t know (let’s call it Batman syndrome). Spider-Man is shocked that he never considered the possibility that the spider might have consciously intended to give Peter its powers. Why has he never considered the possibility (probably because it’s stupid)?

    But even after that Ezekiel still reminds him of Uncle Ben... Eh? Which Part? It's weird because for a guy that talk to you like that he suddenly become a person like your uncle. And that is only in his first issue.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    If someone made a list of the most universally despised Spider-Man stories ever. OMD and Sins Past make that list along with Clone Saga and Year One, and Totem and The Other are maybe in the 20 worst stories ever. While I give him credit for Back In Black, 9/11 character development and a few others, OMD, and Sins Past were stories that personally angered me along with BND Clone Saga and Silk, and for that reason alone, I give him a Grade of D.
    That's a little dramatic, don't you think? You're missing out on the amazing (no pun intended) writing of all his other stories and judging most of his run on two. Two. The man had at least 25 arcs/one-issue stories that were a million times better than those two, but he's only given a "D"?

  3. #18
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    I always felt that JMS reduced May and Mj to sounding boards for Peter's problems. They felt like they lacked autonomy from him, and it didn't feel like they were processing the events that were happening in the story.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I always felt that JMS reduced May and Mj to sounding boards for Peter's problems. They felt like they lacked autonomy from him, and it didn't feel like they were processing the events that were happening in the story.
    Is this really the case or is this your reading of it? There were plenty of times where May and MJ weren't just sounding boards. Honestly, in the case of the latter, you could argue that he was the sounding board, particularly during "Until the Stars Turn Cold" and "Doomed Affairs" (and reasonably so, as they had a lot to work out). May also got her say in "The Conversation", and there were plenty others. So, I'm not sure what this means.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I always felt that JMS reduced May and Mj to sounding boards for Peter's problems. They felt like they lacked autonomy from him, and it didn't feel like they were processing the events that were happening in the story.
    I honestly never liked 616 Aunt May prior to JMS. She felt like a real character under him and not just a prop that Peter has to take care of or lie to (which is how Aunt May was treated for most of the 20th century comics).

    JMS' MJ was the first take I actually bought would want to be married to Peter. MJ's reasons for sticking with Peter through thin-and-thick prior to that mostly boiled down to "Peter is a nice guy and a keeper". Which isn't a horrible explanation, but there are plenty of nice guys in the world that would make good husbands that don't have the baggage that comes with dating Spider-Man. JMS' Spider-Man however is such a good person and role model that I genuinely bought that MJ would want to stay by his side all the way to Back In Black. It also works because JMS showed us what a "nice guy" Peter is (I.e. Getting a teaching job) and wasn't just basing it off of Red Pill-ish stereotypes about how nice guys are as hard to find as unicorns.
    Last edited by Kaitou D. Kid; 09-04-2020 at 09:36 AM.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    Is this really the case or is this your reading of it? There were plenty of times where May and MJ weren't just sounding boards. Honestly, in the case of the latter, you could argue that he was the sounding board, particularly during "Until the Stars Turn Cold" and "Doomed Affairs" (and reasonably so, as they had a lot to work out). May also got her say in "The Conversation", and there were plenty others. So, I'm not sure what this means.
    I always found it "convenient" how quickly May got over Peter being Spider-Man, lying to her for years... It was done in a way that didn't require Peter telling her himself. That's what made it feel like a cop-out.

    Not to mention it feels ridiculous that they would all suddenly move into Stark Tower, even if Peter was a valued superhero.

    Peter and Mj had a lot to work out, so I'm glad that they chose to sweep all of their problems under the rug and get back together for the rest of the run.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    I honestly never liked 616 Aunt May prior to JMS. She felt like a real character under him and not just a prop that Peter has to take care of or lie to (which is how Aunt May was treated for most of the 20th century comics).

    JMS' MJ was the first take I actually bought would want to be married to Peter. MJ's reasons for sticking with Peter through thin-and-thick prior to that mostly boiled down to "Peter is a nice guy and a keeper". Which isn't a horrible explanation, but there are plenty of nice guys in the world that would make good husbands that don't have the baggage that comes with dating Spider-Man. JMS' Spider-Man however is such a good person and role model that I genuinely bought that MJ would want to stay by his side all the way to Back In Black. It also works because JMS showed us what a "nice guy" Peter is (I.e. Getting a teaching job) and wasn't just basing it off of Red Pill-ish stereotypes about how nice guys are as hard to find as unicorns.
    So having them as his sidekicks as Spider-Man completely consumes his life was better?

    They lost every connection they had outside of Peter's social circle over the course the run.

  8. #23
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    I think it's good, but not exceptional.

    The first ten issues are excellent, but it never quite lives up to it, even if there are some cool stories/ moments later.

    There are some fatal flaws in the second half, stories that bombed and could not work. Sins Past wasn't redeemable, because you can't do a story about the artificially aged children of Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn. The Other left a lot of major questions unanswered (what exactly made Peter sick? How did Morlun come back?) and was dropped during the Civil War tie-ins. And Civil War didn't sell Peter's big decision, partly because it was presented as a binary (unmask or be a fugitive) when that was not the case.
    Sincerely,
    Thomas Mets

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    So having them as his sidekicks as Spider-Man completely consumes his life was better?

    They lost every connection they had outside of Peter's social circle over the course the run.
    They're no more "sidekicks" to him than the people closest to me are my sidekicks. They provide me with emotional support when I need it. I'm also their sidekick. I provide them with emotional support when they need it. This is basic human relationship stuff.

    Both MJ and May actually gain connections over the course of the run. MJ becomes a successful theatre actress and May befriends Jarvis. That beats being a lonely model in Hollywood and a lonely old woman, respectively.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I always found it "convenient" how quickly May got over Peter being Spider-Man, lying to her for years... It was done in a way that didn't require Peter telling her himself. That's what made it feel like a cop-out.

    Not to mention it feels ridiculous that they would all suddenly move into Stark Tower, even if Peter was a valued superhero.

    Peter and Mj had a lot to work out, so I'm glad that they chose to sweep all of their problems under the rug and get back together for the rest of the run.
    "It was done in a way that didn't require Peter telling her himself." Hmm. That's interesting; because I could've sworn that when May asked Peter to confirm her suspicions (which was all they were at first), that's when he told her. And when they had a long 3 hour conversation about Peter's role as Spider-Man.

    Why randomly bring up the Stark Tower thing? We weren't even talking about that.

    And did Peter and MJ sweep their problems under the rug or did they work things out like an actual human couple? She wasn't ready to have that conversation at first, but when he went to L.A. with May, they tried to talk, but she said "give her time." Then, time goes on and MJ is now ready to have that conversation and share her feelings with Peter. When they did, that's when they had a cathartic moment, which is completely natural, and reconciled. I'm sorry that MJ didn't bring up their problems over and over again.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    They're no more "sidekicks" to him than the people closest to me are my sidekicks. They provide me with emotional support when I need it. I'm also their sidekick. I provide them with emotional support when they need it. This is basic human relationship stuff.

    Both MJ and May actually gain connections over the course of the run. MJ becomes a successful theatre actress and May befriends Jarvis. That beats being a lonely model in Hollywood and a lonely old woman, respectively.
    Exactly. 10/chars

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by WebSlingWonder View Post
    That's a little dramatic, don't you think? You're missing out on the amazing (no pun intended) writing of all his other stories and judging most of his run on two. Two. The man had at least 25 arcs/one-issue stories that were a million times better than those two, but he's only given a "D"?
    For me it is simple math. I would have given him a B except for those two stories which were so bad I deduct a letter grade. Even Conway who I swear by, has to be penalized half a letter grade over clone saga ( and his run is my second favorite after Ditko). Right now my Top 3 are Ditko, Conway and Spencer (Stern 4th and Romita 5th) although that can always change.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    For me it is simple math. I would have given him a B except for those two stories which were so bad I deduct a letter grade. Even Conway who I swear by, has to be penalized half a letter grade over clone saga ( and his run is my second favorite after Ditko). Right now my Top 3 are Ditko, Conway and Spencer (Stern 4th and Romita 5th) although that can always change.
    I mean, alright...but you know these "grades" are just arbitrary, right?

  14. #29
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    [QUOTE=WebSlingWonder;5129394]I mean, alright...but you know these "grades" are just arbitrary, right?[/QUOTE
    Of course they are arbitrary. Here is the perfect example of this: The Grammy’s are supposed to be for “Excellence In Music.” Yet Lady Gaga won more Grammy’s then Elvis. Does it mean she is better then Elvis? Of course not, but she still has more Grammy’s then The King. Here is another: Alfred Hitchcock maybe the greatest director of all time ( and certainly in anyone’s list of the Top 5 never won a competitive Oscar. So any award, or Letter Grade ( except on multiple choice or true/false questions is purely arbitrary.

  15. #30
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    I'm happy to that getting a job as a teacher is the most basic qualification for being a "nice guy".

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