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  1. #76
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony W View Post
    Nah, pretty sure the game is over and I won since you used the example of Spider-Man fighting crime as a justification for being street level and used Batman as an example.
    Oh, I missed where I signed up for a game, care to explain the rules? I just asked what you considered street level and you refused to answer. chill.

  2. #77
    Kinky Lil' Canine Snoop Dogg's Avatar
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    A character being street level is not about DBZ power levels, it's about the character (of Spider-Man) being created and established as having his stories generally set locally in New York, and every time he leaves it's a fish out of water scenario. Every. Time. He. Leaves.
    Quote Originally Posted by ???
    The world has changed, and so have I.

  3. #78
    Astonishing Member Shinglepants's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
    That has been my belief for some years now. That they should have mapped out a 10-30 years plan for the universe. Then have creators guide the invidual stories over the years. While giving new talent oppertunities to alter things as the years roll on. While still staying true to the master plan. The story for the MU as a whole.
    I think itís a big ask for anybody to map out a 30 year plan, especially one which involves so many contributors. Let alone the coming and goings of E-I-C and Editors.

    Whatís more, just how much wiggle room does it leave writers? If Ewing pitches his Immortal Hulk book under this plan and it doesnít fit, does he get told no?

    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    Personally, I feel that Spidey should move on from being a street level character. He should be on Jason Arron's Avengers run. If a street level character like Blade can be on the team, why can't Peter Parker?
    Iíd imagine because Aaron wanted Blade and not Pete?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I personally think that Marvel's EVENT comics are maybe the least creative thing they do. Every thing else I think is actually creative. People have mentioned the X-men stuff and Hulk as examples, but I think you can include titles like Zdarsky's DD, Aaron's Thor run, the new Venom stuff has struÁk a chord with his fans from what I hear. I think there's a lot of stuff out there right now. Whether you like it or not is another thing, but they're certainly not out of ideas.

    I think even looking at the last 10 or so years you have some good stuff that (personally) I'd re-read before anything from the 60s/70s.
    This sums it up for me perfectly. Events tend to be big dumb blockbusters and like big dumb blockbusters, many of them are sequels.

    Dig a little deeper though, theres plenty of great ongoing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    Prior to the MCU, I don't recall the term "street-level" being used.
    No, if definitely preceded that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    It sounds like Bendis used it in a different context. Daredevil maybe fits "street-level" the best because he literally operates underground. He goes to a lot of neglected places where even most heroes won't go (or at least won't go as often), so it maybe makes more sense.

    'Street-level" as a class of heroes is kinda elitist, though. Even Luke Cage and Jessica Jones were Avengers at the same time as they were "street-level" in the comics.
    I donít think Street is a dirty word. The problem with it is that itís not a word Marvel used/defined. Itís just used by us guys on boards and even we donít fully agree on its definition.

  4. #79
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinglepants View Post
    I don’t think Street is a dirty word. The problem with it is that it’s not a word Marvel used/defined. It’s just used by us guys on boards and even we don’t fully agree on its definition.
    So much time is wasted over terms, whenever terms like these get brought up I prefer to find out how the person is using it. I will pretty much accept whatever definition someone chooses. Just let me know what it is being shorthanded for and move on. I am more interested in the context in which they brought up the term than if they are applying it 'correctly'.

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinglepants View Post
    I don’t think Street is a dirty word. The problem with it is that it’s not a word Marvel used/defined. It’s just used by us guys on boards and even we don’t fully agree on its definition.
    I completely agree! I've personally always liked the clarity of it; and I think for characters like DD it suits them so well. Personally I've always preferred characters like Batman and Spider-Man more when their stories/threats are closer to home. I think this is why I liked Bendis' post Civil War New Avengers so much too.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darthfury78 View Post
    Agreed. In the case of Spider-Man, his rogues gallery should be transferred over to other departments to further develop their character. We've seen this with The Kingpin over to Daredevil. As a matter of fact, I have never seen Marvel Comics published a team-up mini series that featured Spider-Man and a super heroine. Mainly Wolverine and Deadpool respectively. It would be nice if Marvel could publish a team-up mini series that would give a super heroine some exposure to the masses. For example, I would love to see the following mini series with a heroine working alongside Peter Parker, such as:

    1. Black Widow & Spider-Man
    2. Spider-Woman(Jessica Drew) & Spider-Man
    3. Captain Britain(Betsy Braddock) & Spider-Man
    4. Tigra & Spider-Man
    5. Captain Marvel & Spider-Man
    6. She-Hulk & Spider-Man


    There is a ton of story potential that could bring flood of $$$$ to Marvel Comics in terms of free marketing over their over reliance on cover variants. What would also do very well is the following mini series:

    1. Silver Sable & Captain America
    2. Silver Sable & Black Widow
    3. Black Cat & Hawkeye
    4. Black Cat & Daredevil
    5. Black Cat & Mystique
    6. Spider-Man & The Taskmaster
    Sorry to quote a comment this far back but I think if we're talking about creativity in the Marvel Universe, we need to escape the trappings of leaning on the most popular character. Focussing too much on a character makes them lose appeal in the comics (as we've seen with Wolverine, Deadpool, Spawn etc). Not to mention, I'm sure there are other great pairings for heroes. I know he's the most popular, but he isn't the beginning and end of Marvel. Marvel comics, luckily, don't have to lean on one character at the moment - a lot of great books and characters are selling well enough to have some spotlight shed on them, so it's not unlikely a character like Spider-Woman could have a great on going without needing Spider-Man to market it! A lot of titles can get by on word of mouth (unfortunately, a lot can't either). But I think the most non creative thing comic companies can do is rely on one mega popular character to sell their lesser known characters.

    Unfortunately DC have a strong reliance on Batman at the moment, and for me that's grating. I wanna see all the characters shine without one sole character being the focus!

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    Sorry to quote a comment this far back but I think if we're talking about creativity in the Marvel Universe, we need to escape the trappings of leaning on the most popular character. Focussing too much on a character makes them lose appeal in the comics (as we've seen with Wolverine, Deadpool, Spawn etc). Not to mention, I'm sure there are other great pairings for heroes. I know he's the most popular, but he isn't the beginning and end of Marvel. Marvel comics, luckily, don't have to lean on one character at the moment - a lot of great books and characters are selling well enough to have some spotlight shed on them, so it's not unlikely a character like Spider-Woman could have a great on going without needing Spider-Man to market it! A lot of titles can get by on word of mouth (unfortunately, a lot can't either). But I think the most non creative thing comic companies can do is rely on one mega popular character to sell their lesser known characters.

    Unfortunately DC have a strong reliance on Batman at the moment, and for me that's grating. I wanna see all the characters shine without one sole character being the focus!
    I feel like the problem is that most series treat "muggles" and other supporting characters as superfluous and don't try to flesh out each character's individual world out more. It helps give superheroes a sense of independence that most team books kind of deprive them of.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member cranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    Unfortunately DC have a strong reliance on Batman at the moment, and for me that's grating. I wanna see all the characters shine without one sole character being the focus!
    Just don't read the Batman books. I have been reading more than enough DC books that don't even acknowledge him that I forget this whole Batman envy people have. I mean you are making a good point of publishers need to tell stories without these heroes, but you obviously are not reading them, and no one else is, so that is why they rely on them.

    You are right, though, in that Marvel does not rely on one character, they at least have two: Event and New #1. Jokes aside, they are relying on Hickman (maybe) and Cates, and those two are a specific style.

  9. #84
    Fantastic Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    No they just need to expand into other genres and audiences.
    OP characters make me itch

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    No they just need to expand into other genres and audiences.
    They do, but they use the same characters for said stories. It gets jarring.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    I'd personally argue that what we're seeing in Immortal Hulk right now is the peak of the character, or at least leading to it (admittedly I've not read an abundance of hulk stuff). I would also say that I don't think team up mini series' are the best chance of injecting characters with creativity. I think the only time I've really enjoyed a team up book was Astonishing Spider-man and Wolverine, but in my eyes that was an outlier. In my opinion team up books mostly lead to non essential arcs for characters
    I once felt that a team up book could be used as a test to see which characters could appear in the pages of ASM or SSM respectively on a reoccurring guest appearance, or even on the team as Spider-Man. It's worked wonders for Spider-Man & Deadpool. Why can't the same apply toward She-Hulk and Spider-Man?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack The Tripper View Post
    Sorry to quote a comment this far back but I think if we're talking about creativity in the Marvel Universe, we need to escape the trappings of leaning on the most popular character. Focussing too much on a character makes them lose appeal in the comics (as we've seen with Wolverine, Deadpool, Spawn etc). Not to mention, I'm sure there are other great pairings for heroes. I know he's the most popular, but he isn't the beginning and end of Marvel. Marvel comics, luckily, don't have to lean on one character at the moment - a lot of great books and characters are selling well enough to have some spotlight shed on them, so it's not unlikely a character like Spider-Woman could have a great on going without needing Spider-Man to market it! A lot of titles can get by on word of mouth (unfortunately, a lot can't either). But I think the most non creative thing comic companies can do is rely on one mega popular character to sell their lesser known characters.

    Unfortunately DC have a strong reliance on Batman at the moment, and for me that's grating. I wanna see all the characters shine without one sole character being the focus!
    In the case of Spider-Man and Spider-Woman, Peter and Jessica are friends. I would like to see their friendship get further developed. Also, having Jessica appear in a reoccurring guest spot in Spider-Man would not hurt as we would get to see how they are different. Right now, Spider-Man doesn't have a team-up series. The Last being Avenging Spider-Man that was quickly cancelled for the now forgotten Superior Spider-Man team-up series. If Peter appears in the pages of Spider-Woman, it would have to be in a non Spider-Man role to ensure the focus is on Jessica. Peter is a scientist. We rarely ever see Peter use his talents outside of his world. This would provide an opportunity to see him in a supporting role(non-Spidey) working with the Avengers, Captain Marvel, She-Hulk, and Spider-Woman respectively.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    No they just need to expand into other genres and audiences.
    They have tried.

    At times it has been with the same folks over and over again. In some case a race changed version like Bruce Wayne in Gotham High being Asian.

    Other times they have used other folks like Ms Marvel. While at various times they have had success (along with entitlement folks and gators throwing FITS about it) they (and this ESPECIALLY go for DC) forget to do one major THING.

    FOLLOW UP ON IT. In other words it's treated like it was by accident or dumb luck or fake agendas according to certain youtubers.

    Or no one else would get a shot without a battle if there is one.

    And in some cases they stopped using one format and went to another. A lot of times the follow up is outside of the direct market.

    Miles Morales has 3 new books- one came out last week (Little Golden books) and 2 in 2021.
    Shuri has 2 hardcover ones in 2021.
    NONE in the direct market.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    They have tried.

    At times it has been with the same folks over and over again. In some case a race changed version like Bruce Wayne in Gotham High being Asian.

    Other times they have used other folks like Ms Marvel. While at various times they have had success (along with entitlement folks and gators throwing FITS about it) they (and this ESPECIALLY go for DC) forget to do one major THING.

    FOLLOW UP ON IT. In other words it's treated like it was by accident or dumb luck or fake agendas according to certain youtubers.

    Or no one else would get a shot without a battle if there is one.

    And in some cases they stopped using one format and went to another. A lot of times the follow up is outside of the direct market.

    Miles Morales has 3 new books- one came out last week (Little Golden books) and 2 in 2021.
    Shuri has 2 hardcover ones in 2021.
    NONE in the direct market.
    What Marvel needs to do is move the following back to their own universe:

    1. Miles Morales
    2. Spider-Gwen
    3. Rachel Summers
    4. All the characters from Age of Apocalypse


    These characters do not need to populate Marvel-616. Marvel should return Miles to the Ultimate Universe were Peter Parker is still dead. Rachel should return to her own timeline with the power of the Phoenix Force to put an end the the threat that plagues that world. The stories works best when the characters are in their own timeline...
    Last edited by Darthfury78; 09-13-2020 at 12:29 AM.

  15. #90
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    No they just need to expand into other genres and audiences.
    Comic Book Superheroes characters from DC and Marvel have ventured into any kind of genre possibles. But, because of the character is in the worst possible saying same-old-same-old, we never realized it. But to me, that is the beautiful part of Superhero comic. They can be anything that the creators wanted as long as it's fit the character. You can't find characters as multifunctional as them because they lack the rich history that defines them and the imaginative of time to think about their story in 1 month (or two weeks if you are Batman and Spider-Man).

    But genres are not the same with audiences, because for some of the audiences, they have this comfort zone and to reach that comfort zone is frankly hard. Like for example, people who read manga, especially shonen manga, will love more action-oriented comics, and by that, I mean more bombastic splash page full of actions and less talk between the characters. You can say that some stuff like Thor or Superman can give them what they wanted, but even then the feels of action between manga and comics are different, because of the panels and pages usage of manga. So it's hard to tap into new audiences, but even like that they already did a heck job to reach that.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

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