View Poll Results: Is superman being a dork essential to you?

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  • Yes, i love that the character is humble

    20 52.63%
  • No, the character isn't meant to be a dork

    4 10.53%
  • I don't believe he is a dork in the first place

    14 36.84%
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  1. #46
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    I'd just get rid of the red underwear. Problem solved.

    I don't know why everyone bends over backwards for this one article of clothing.
    Because the contrast color that red underwear gave to Superman's design is what makes his design perfect.
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  2. #47
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    It's not that easy. Superman will never have something as iconic or as well known as that strongman suit. Go to the remotest part of the world and ask "who superman is". You will get the answer "the guy that wears the underwear on the outside with a big s on his chest" . Everything will always pale in comparison. It created the whole genre. Even batman is modelled after the look.
    1. Yes it is.
    2. Not if we keep going back to it all the time.
    Look at Batman. You could have made the same argument about him. But thanks to the Burton movies and Nolan movies and a few comics and cartoons ditching the trunks, it's no longer the indispensable iconic look. Yeah he still gets stuck with them in some comics and some cartoons, but they're no longer such a must have no matter what sticking point for the character that it still is for Superman. Do more versions without the trunks in wider media, do more books without the trunks, and we'll eventually get to Batman level with them. Maybe we'll never get rid of them entirely, but they don't have to be as "iconic" as some of us think they must be. It's happened with Batman, it's happened with Wolverine in Marvel (people forget he had them), it can happen for Superman too.

  3. #48
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Nobody says 'what a goofy outfit' when a wrestler wears the skintight suit. Do they?
    Felt this deserves to be separate: Actually yes, yes people do. Although it's one of the lesser ridiculous things wrestling gets called out on, like being fake, or the horrible soap opera plots to give the fights story. And the acting in general.
    Wrestling is just so damn goofy singling out the outfits is kind of a moot point. It's just such a goofy thing. But the fans love it for being goofy.

    For comics, we either need to go back to being goofy and give up the compelling, complex, more serious type of storytelling like wrestling does, or ditch the trunks.

    But yeah, wrestling is so goofy, and we love it for it.

  4. #49
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    Because the contrast color that red underwear gave to Superman's design is what makes his design perfect.
    Cavill's outfit in film, the Rebirth suit, others have all given demise to this myth. The trunks aren't necessary. You can like them, love them, want him to keep them always, but you can't argue he needs them. We've seen the suit work fine without them.

  5. #50
    The Superior One Celgress's Avatar
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    I do like "dorky" or socially awkward "nerd" Clark Kent (more so than Superman), thus I voted yes.

    I do feel being an unwavering goody-two-shoes type is more essential to Clark/Superman's character than anything other aspect (aside from maybe his origins).
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  6. #51
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celgress View Post
    I do like "dorky" or socially awkward "nerd" Clark Kent (more so than Superman), thus I voted yes.

    I do feel being an unwavering goody-two-shoes type is more essential to Clark/Superman's character than anything other aspect (aside from maybe his origins).
    Same here. And being a bit of a dork when relaxing with say, his family and close friends, would fit too. Not the over the top "dork", but more natural is all.

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Felt this deserves to be separate: Actually yes, yes people do. Although it's one of the lesser ridiculous things wrestling gets called out on, like being fake, or the horrible soap opera plots to give the fights story. And the acting in general.
    Wrestling is just so damn goofy singling out the outfits is kind of a moot point. It's just such a goofy thing. But the fans love it for being goofy.

    For comics, we either need to go back to being goofy and give up the compelling, complex, more serious type of storytelling like wrestling does, or ditch the trunks.

    But yeah, wrestling is so goofy, and we love it for it.
    What about ametueur wrestling? Those guys wear skintight suits as well. You could also make his clothes more like powerlifters gear.

    I have to say though i like the gladiator boots of the original design. Maybe the police badge s as well. If we are really feeling bold about the character calling out and making statements. Heck! Lean into boxing thing and make it more like shorts. You could have a suit like the bruce lee one as well. Regardless , i don't believe it will be as iconic as his original suit in the long run. You believe otherwise. That's fine. But, i do believe we have to look into that arena to make atleast an effort. Since, the character is strength based it needs to connect thematically. So anything based on physicality in the real world should be looked into for inspiration. That's what shuster did. That armour look and space onesie suit look just thematically does not connect. Superman as a concept, is an idea of a working class man. It's not some kryptonIan construct.. He isn't space royalty. There are other ways to connect superman to krypton. The suit and s ain't it. Superman isn't a creation of either the earth parents or sky parents.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Same here. And being a bit of a dork when relaxing with say, his family and close friends, would fit too. Not the over the top "dork", but more natural is all.
    Superman ain't dork. Never has and never should be though. That's the question. There are two clark kents one is fake persona. The other became superman. Sure enough, he can have dorky tastes sometimes but removing the dichotomy will kill the character.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-10-2020 at 12:40 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Because batman has personality of a shtick most of the time.So any emotion is seen as joyous rarity . Even then Bruce's moments are done differently with different connotation for example the ace moment . I don't particularly find a person who talks down to people, really that much of a hero. It is paternalism to be blunt. Especially, when it's presented like the way it's done here with superman . There is a difference between that and compassionate. Moreover, the way he does it makes him feels entirely out of touch. So a dork.

    This is compassion for me.


    Superman talking down to even kids is nonsensical portrayal. Superman's reaction in dcau isn't compassion. That's not a human reaction to kid doing something so stupid. I would be pissed, if i really cared. And No, moral platitudes would be last thing coming out of my mouth.Superman is'nt a spacedad. He is a champion. He should be one of us,Not a skyfather looking down.

    The above has a working class orphan with nothing(superman) helping out another in his position and not in a condescending way. The second has helping out a boxer down on his luck by being a friend and fellow boxing enthusiast who actually gives a damn about the sport.
    Honestly, that moment of Superman with the kid still seems pretty Superdad for me.

    I think that's why it is important to describe your especific problems with the current Superman instead of just use the word Superdad.
    Last edited by Konja7; 09-10-2020 at 06:59 AM.

  9. #54
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Konja7 View Post
    Honestly, that moment of Superman with the kid still seems pretty Superdad for me.

    I think that's why it is important to describe your especific problems with the current Superman instead of just use the word Superdad.
    Giving someone food isn't superdad.He doesn't talk down. He isn't giving speeches on why and what the kid should do. Heck! In a questionable step, he asks the kid's help to take down an orphanage attender like he would a partner. Replace that kid with a fully grown adult. There wouldn't be much of difference and it would still feel the same. But in dcau like situation, it would reek of paternalism. Superman would be talking down a bunch of fully grown adults.

    It feels fake moral superiority and fake. Period.That's my main problem.Superman feels like two faced white knight because the lack of empathy and sense of actual reality . Naive good isn't really good. That kind of portrayal permeates beyond just current superman. So, calling any portrayal that has that kind of nonsense superdad is apt. The "hey! Kids" routine sucks. Point blank.
    American alien even addresses how a superman should speak to people and even children.

    Talks to a child without condescension.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-10-2020 at 07:32 AM.

  10. #55
    Extraordinary Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Superman ain't dork. Never has and never should be though. That's the question. There are two clark kents one is fake persona. The other became superman. Sure enough, he can have dorky tastes sometimes but removing the dichotomy will kill the character.
    I'm not saying Clark, when around his closest friends and family, is an uber dork like what he puts on in public. Just that, as you said, can have dorky tastes and jokes at times. Nothing wrong with that.

  11. #56
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    What about ametueur wrestling? Those guys wear skintight suits as well.
    There's only one genre were I take the word amateur with even semi-serious interest, and that can't be talked about here. So no.

    You could also make his clothes more like powerlifters gear.

    I have to say though i like the gladiator boots of the original design. Maybe the police badge s as well. If we are really feeling bold about the character calling out and making statements. Heck! Lean into boxing thing and make it more like shorts.
    I still prefer trunks-less, but shorts styled trunks isn't near as bad as the underwear shaped trunks he's normally stuck with.

    You could have a suit like the bruce lee one as well. Regardless , i don't believe it will be as iconic as his original suit in the long run. You believe otherwise. That's fine. But, i do believe we have to look into that arena to make atleast an effort.
    I think our efforts would be better spent doing more versions without the trunks. It's worked out fine for other characters.

    Since, the character is strength based it needs to connect thematically. So anything based on physicality in the real world should be looked into for inspiration. That's what shuster did. That armour look and space onesie suit look just thematically does not connect.
    I don't know what suit is the space onsesie, but both the live action Man of Steel suit and the Rebirth suit worked. Not sure if you can say no trunks is thematic, but it looks great.

    Superman as a concept, is an idea of a working class man. It's not some kryptonIan construct.. He isn't space royalty. There are other ways to connect superman to krypton. The suit and s ain't it. Superman isn't a creation of either the earth parents or sky parents.
    I like the S alien hope thing, but to each their own.
    But most working class men wear jeans and shirts.

  12. #57
    Astonishing Member Adekis's Avatar
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    I think "dork" can't escape being a loaded word, and it doesn't mean the same thing as "humble," obviously, which renders the poll somewhat meaningless.

    But is Clark Kent sort of a geek or a nerd? Yeah, I think he's necessarily a geek, it's part of the whole "normal guy, bit of an outsider, with a good head on his shoulders" thing that's so key to Superman.

    "Justice League Action" is a show that nails that, though sometimes it goes a little too far in the other direction and kind of forgets that he's also the coolest guy in the world, in addition to being a massive nerd.
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  13. #58
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    There's only one genre were I take the word amateur with even semi-serious interest, and that can't be talked about here. So no.



    I still prefer trunks-less, but shorts styled trunks isn't near as bad as the underwear shaped trunks he's normally stuck with.



    I think our efforts would be better spent doing more versions without the trunks. It's worked out fine for other characters.



    I don't know what suit is the space onsesie, but both the live action Man of Steel suit and the Rebirth suit worked. Not sure if you can say no trunks is thematic, but it looks great.



    I like the S alien hope thing, but to each their own.
    But most working class men wear jeans and shirts.
    I Mean,it's(wrestling) part of Olympics and a serious competition. But, to each their own.

    Bare in mind, i don't actually think suit is bad or good. For me, i want the character when he needs to be taken serious should be. That's the purpose.Shorts, powerlifters gear style.. Etc would be perfect for that. In general, I find the strongman suit rather fitting like say joker's costume or dick grayson's acrobat costume. If you look at dc as a giant circus then naturally superman would be the strongman. Heck! I even made a small team based on old cover with superman in it and old pulp flavours.

    The greatest show on earth(circus theme)

    The Fantastic Tex thompson - the ringmaster
    The Astonishing Zatara - the magician
    The Invincible Superman - the strongman
    The Unerring Vigilante- the marksman/knife thrower
    The Hilarious Creeper - the clown/jester
    The Athletic Nightwing and Flamebird - the acrobats/trapeze artists.
    The Ever-dominant Animal man - the animal tamer
    The Fantabulous Fire - fire breather
    The Eternal Swampthing - "freak"


    One is nano tech. For a guy that has underlying cynical relationship with automation, technology and is about human physicality . It fails to capture any nuances. It would have been better if the armour was more inspired by gladiators. Spacesuit from man of steel doesn't feel like it even has belt. Strongman look is thematic.The guy is meant to show you what real strength is supposed to be. To act to protect those weaker than you and those that are in need(not the complacent) is true strength.why do i want it to be connected to real world athletics? Well, that generally helps people connect the dots easily and more at a subconscious level.

    The s thing makes my eyes roll. It's grandiose explanation for giving the character more importance than it deserves . Its forced and unearned the way its done. There is a big symbolism to luffy's strawhat. But what oda never does is, have strawhat's meaning be declared first hand.The actions and story should dictate the meaning of s. It can be anything freedom, truth, justice or hope. Moreover, It takes away agency from superman gives it to something else. That's why i don't like the sun explanation much as well. Anything, that takesaway the agency from clark and gives it to the world is bad.

    They do. We can have that as well. I do believe the jeans and tshirt look worked wayyy better than the actual new52 suit. But, it doesn't connect superman to anyform of physicality. Working class men have their own uniforms and gears they change into, Where they tear of the layer of mundanity and do labour that contributes to the society. I mean working class people like construction worker, firemen,... Etc don't exactly wear casuals to go do those kind of jobs.Moreover, the powerlifters generally wear tshirts as well.Powerlifters Usually have bigger belts that strap in though.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-10-2020 at 07:27 PM.

  14. #59
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    If you're arguing that we can loose the trunks because they're not a big deal, then why does he even need to loose them? As you've said, they're not a big deal.

  15. #60
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    If you're arguing that we can loose the trunks because they're not a big deal, then why does he even need to loose them? As you've said, they're not a big deal.
    I am not arguing to lose the trunks or keep them. I want the character to be mythic the way he used to be.If people have trouble taking the costume seriously then there should be ways to mitigate that.

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