X-Factor #3, Recap and Review, Spoilers Brought to You by Headshot TV!

[CGAR]

I don’t regret. But I still don’t understand the perspective.

Like I don’t like Tini Howard’s pacing and dialogue but I’m glad my favorite character is showing up.

I wouldn’t want her to be in limbo.

I also feel like wanting your character in limbo is just giving him/her more reason to complain and stick to their narrative.

I like Polaris in this it’s not fantastic but it also is NOT bad.

[salarta]

Okay, I'll try to explain that aspect of it a little better and more concisely, then either leave it at that (so I'm not doing tons of posts on this) or I can chat by PM.

I don't have an issue with Leah's writing so far. My concern is Lorna's circumstances on the book. I think they put her in worse shape than if she was not in anything. If she's not in anything, then she at least keeps intact an understanding that she has risen in X-Factor to a leadership level. By remaining on this book as a team member, doing nothing else, it's implied that Lorna serving as leader was a mistake, something she never deserved, and that her "rightful place" is to act as a supporting character for everyone else's stories. That she can boost Northstar to leadership, but she's not "good enough" or "interesting enough" to be a leader herself. It also implies that ANXF failed because of her, when that's not the case. It's a huge backwards step for her regardless of what Leah writes with her on the book.

Look at how much people think of Lorna merely as "Havok's girlfriend" with nothing else to offer due to how she's usually been written around him. She would have been better off not written with him than written poorly. Same applies here.

Of course I would want Lorna in all sorts of things - if treated right and respectfully. I want to see her history acknowledged, and her potential explored. But if it's going to do more to hurt than help her, then I don't want it. It needs to be a net positive.

[Beetle]

Plenty of characters have been team leaders and have currently been demoted. There's too many characters, not everyone can be leader

Dani, Karma, Cannonball, Rogue, Nightcrawler, Storm

[salarta]

Plenty of characters have been team leaders and have currently been demoted. There's too many characters, not everyone can be leader

Dani, Karma, Cannonball, Rogue, Nightcrawler, Storm

I can't speak on every character since I don't know all of their circumstances like a fan of them would. As with Shatterstar, I do welcome being informed on their circumstances.

What I can say is Nightcrawler and Storm both have Giant-Size X-Men oneshots. Major title, lots of promotion. Such oneshots convey a sense of value for the focal character, and implies that Marvel at least has some appreciation for what they have to offer even if they're not leading anything. Marvel's saying they have big future plans for Storm as well. I consider that to be better than Lorna's present circumstances.

[anyajenkins]

Not really the point, the point was that lots of characters have been ‘leaders’ at one point and then team members, and the readers don’t view it as a demotion or something the character didn’t deserve to have. I guarantee that most readers aren’t looking at. X-factor and saying, ‘oh, Polaris isn’t the leader, guess that means she didn’t deserve it and was unworthy.’

[Askani's Flame]

Not really the point, the point was that lots of characters have been ‘leaders’ at one point and then team members, and the readers don’t view it as a demotion or something the character didn’t deserve to have. I guarantee that most readers aren’t looking at. X-factor and saying, ‘oh, Polaris isn’t the leader, guess that means she didn’t deserve it and was unworthy.’

And whether or not we agree with the decision, Lorna outright said she did not want the leadership role for this team. So her choosing to stay on it in this capacity is a choice she is making. Again, some of us don't agree with it necessarily but it's what has been written and published.

[CGAR]

I appreciate that Leah's issues take me a while to read.

[DAHX]

Okay, I'll try to explain that aspect of it a little better and more concisely, then either leave it at that (so I'm not doing tons of posts on this) or I can chat by PM.

I don't have an issue with Leah's writing so far. My concern is Lorna's circumstances on the book. I think they put her in worse shape than if she was not in anything. If she's not in anything, then she at least keeps intact an understanding that she has risen in X-Factor to a leadership level. By remaining on this book as a team member, doing nothing else, it's implied that Lorna serving as leader was a mistake, something she never deserved, and that her "rightful place" is to act as a supporting character for everyone else's stories. That she can boost Northstar to leadership, but she's not "good enough" or "interesting enough" to be a leader herself. It also implies that ANXF failed because of her, when that's not the case. It's a huge backwards step for her regardless of what Leah writes with her on the book.

Look at how much people think of Lorna merely as "Havok's girlfriend" with nothing else to offer due to how she's usually been written around him. She would have been better off not written with him than written poorly. Same applies here.

Of course I would want Lorna in all sorts of things - if treated right and respectfully. I want to see her history acknowledged, and her potential explored. But if it's going to do more to hurt than help her, then I don't want it. It needs to be a net positive.

Every issue so far showed that Lorna is much more capable of being a leader than Northstar... He's still figuring out how to lead and hasn't been the best at it yet. While Lorna handles the actions much better and literally has to tell Northstar what to do. Everyone on the Council automatically assumed Lorna for the leadership, because they view her as the leadership material. the book doesn't imply that "she's not good enough, serving as leader was a mistake, she never deserved it, ANXF failed bc of her". The book clearly states that she is more experienced and better leader than Northstar(at the moment) - it is very clear for the readers too. What you're saying is literally the opposite of whats happening in the book.

And why she isn't the leader? well, she doens't have to. it is not something that will make her more important or interesting. She already had a chance to be a leader of a book, Northstar hasn't - it is a good opportunity for other characters to have the role. this doesnt' take away any importance from Lorna.

"I want to see her history acknowledged" - then you should be happy for X-Factor, did anybody ever acknowledg her geology knowledge in the last 30 years? X-Factor just did.

[salarta]

Not really the point, the point was that lots of characters have been ‘leaders’ at one point and then team members, and the readers don’t view it as a demotion or something the character didn’t deserve to have. I guarantee that most readers aren’t looking at. X-factor and saying, ‘oh, Polaris isn’t the leader, guess that means she didn’t deserve it and was unworthy.’

A character's circumstances are an important facet to consider. I can't remark on every single character as I don't know every single character. What I can do is remark on Lorna's circumstances. From her observed circumstances, I stand by what I've said.

Most readers might not interpret it that way. Most readers also probably don't even know she led All-New X-Factor, or have seen any of the other things that I have regarding Marvel's treatment of the character. And regardless of readers' interpretations, the company is building that interpretation within themselves. Just as past poor treatment of Lorna around Havok built internal interpretations of her as mainly being a supporting character for Havok, what Marvel does with her today is trying to influence how she will be treated later by future writers. That's how Marvel's culture of nostalgia works.

Now, if lots of characters have the same circumstances as Lorna - decades of mistreatment, history with the franchise completely ignored, character development repeatedly undone or handed off to other characters, mostly used only to promote other characters at their expense, and so much else - then it doesn't change my response for Lorna. It just means those characters deserve better than they've received from Marvel too, and maybe the whole culture of thought about characters in these comics needs to change.

And whether or not we agree with the decision, Lorna outright said she did not want the leadership role for this team. So her choosing to stay on it in this capacity is a choice she is making. Again, some of us don't agree with it necessarily but it's what has been written and published.

What you're citing is an excuse written in the script to justify why she's not leading X-Factor. Nothing more.

There are ways and reasons that Lorna not leading X-Factor could be justified without it being an excuse. I can think of several. But here, it's very blatantly just putting words in the character's mouth to "explain" why she's on this team as a team member, not the leader, and doing nothing else. And I can easily see Marvel using those words put in the character's mouth to try to justify her never being anything other than a minor supporting character ever again.

Every issue so far showed that Lorna is much more capable of being a leader than Northstar... He's still figuring out how to lead and hasn't been the best at it yet. While Lorna handles the actions much better and literally has to tell Northstar what to do. Everyone on the Council automatically assumed Lorna for the leadership, because they view her as the leadership material. the book doesn't imply that "she's not good enough, serving as leader was a mistake, she never deserved it, ANXF failed bc of her". The book clearly states that she is more experienced and better leader than Northstar(at the moment) - it is very clear for the readers too. What you're saying is literally the opposite of whats happening in the book.

And why she isn't the leader? well, she doens't have to. it is not something that will make her more important or interesting. She already had a chance to be a leader of a book, Northstar hasn't - it is a good opportunity for other characters to have the role. this doesnt' take away any importance from Lorna.

"I want to see her history acknowledged" - then you should be happy for X-Factor, did anybody ever acknowledg her geology knowledge in the last 30 years? X-Factor just did.

For what you mentioned of other characters expecting Lorna to be the leader, the story's primary goal with those scenes was to smooth over potential complaints about why she's not leading the book given her history. Which is admittedly better than everyone badmouthing Lorna (which I'm sure would've been OOC and brought about a great deal of backlash) or just not having such scenes, but at the end of the day, it's not there to tell people that Lorna's truly leadership material. It's there to justify a status quo for this book where Lorna's just a team member and doing nothing else outside of this book.

Fiction is full of characters that seem to be leadership material, at some points even seeming like they could be a better leader than the designated leader, but their role is clearly designated as someone who only exists to be a supporting character to the true leadership material. Merlin of Arthurian legend comes to mind. The intent is to suggest that the designated leader is a diamond in the rough who, with refinement provided by the supporting character, will be an infinitely better leader than the supporting character could ever be.

As such, the supporting character is locked into a definition of them as just that. Never able to pursue their own dreams. Never able to realize their own potential. Always existing to bring it out for people who have "true" leadership potential. That is how Lorna on this book, and doing nothing bigger and more important outside of it, reads to me. Demoting her from someone who leads, to someone who sits in a corner and never realizes her own potential because she's solely focused on helping everyone else bring out theirs.

I agree that X-Factor is a good opportunity for Northstar to have the leader role. He should keep it. But Lorna shouldn't be involved if this is all she gets out of Marvel.

I would be happy about the geology scene you mention if it was under circumstances that are good for her. The circumstances are bad. A few pages of that do not in any way make up for everything else about this. More importantly, Marvel still hasn't acknowledged her experience with the Genoshan genocide, and shows no plans to ever do so. For a person who is being starved, receiving a crumb may be better than nothing, but it's far from the full meal they need, and it does not change that they're being starved.

[MythicalChicken]

Just because she’s not leading doesn’t make her inferior, especially considering Leah made it so clear there’s a long game of her own at play and we’re only three issues in.

[Magnetic]

I'm surprised that I really love this incarnation of X-Factor - main cast and extras. Looking forward to more Aurora and how she fits in with the team.