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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I don’t understand neither: what is it this love for dynasties? Like any young person gifted with fine qualities must be some lost prince or princess… He or she cannot be some commoner…
    I still say the only film anything like that occurs in is, ironically, The Last Jedi when it demotes Rey and Finn from lead roles and promotes Luke and kYlo above them.

    ...But I will say that there *is* an element of how valuable a “family story” can be, as opposed to a “dynasty” story. What made the Vader reveal in ESB great wasn’t implying that Luke’s greatness came from his bloodline - it was that it showcased how horrible and terrible a family legacy could be, and showed what he was at risk fo becoming if he gave in to the dark side.

    If anything, the Skywalker family story was about deconstructing the idea of dynasties - the relationships of a family matter more than an inheritance or a bloodline.

    ...And I’d argue that Rey Skywalker fans weren’t so much interested in some pseudo-dynastic idea as much as they were excited by the idea of her being the new lead in the family story... and how inadequate they would see Kylo as the new focal point of that story idea.

    And if I can be blunt, I don’t see anything wrong with saying “Kylo Ren is a horrible and unacceptable continuation of the family story, and should have been offset by Rey Skywalker.”

    I suppose a good way to view the “dynasty” vs “family” argument in the ST is whether or not you think Finn should be the male lead because he’s simply a better male lead and partner for Rey and we’re hoping she would be a Skywalker so she and Finn would both be a part of a multi-generational tale (family) or whether you feel that Kylo Ren is a “natural” male lead and partner for Rey because of who his parents are, no matter how badly he fits that role or how much he takes away from the films (dynasty.)

    Rey kind fi needed the Palpatine connection because LFL gave into the dynasty argument itself when it demanded Ben Solo’s redemption be catered to over Rey’s needs as the main character, which was why Palpatine came back in the first place (he provided a Bigger Bad for Ben Solo to fight against.)
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelena View Post
    I don’t understand neither: what is it this love for dynasties? Like any young person gifted with fine qualities must be some lost prince or princess… He or she cannot be some commoner…
    I think I was unclear with that comment. What I'm saying is that this is a lesson we didn't need. That was never a theme in any of the Star Wars movies. So why do people get so latched on to the idea anyone can be a Jedi message in TLJ? I'm pretty sure we already knew that. We didn't need a movie to tell us that.

  3. #33
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MASTER-OF-SUPRISE View Post
    I think I was unclear with that comment. What I'm saying is that this is a lesson we didn't need. That was never a theme in any of the Star Wars movies. So why do people get so latched on to the idea anyone can be a Jedi message in TLJ? I'm pretty sure we already knew that. We didn't need a movie to tell us that.
    I think people are too hung up to the idea that the primary motivation for the revelation that Rey was a 'nobody' was some kind of statement that you can be a Jedi without being related to some other famous Force user. That was a secondary or tertiary motivation only. Main point was to provide a character moment for Rey, who up until that point had been daydreaming that her parents had been something special and all that what happened to her had a point. It's a very natural thing for an abandoned orphan to dream about, and she had that bubble burst.

    Personally I was sick & tired of the inbredness of the Star Wars universe, and if Johnson rolled it back even just a tiny bit, more power to him I say.

  4. #34
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moon Ronin View Post
    Luke was lost in Johnson's want to subvert expectations and be different
    This one I don't get. Did people really expect - based on TFA - that Luke would eagerly grab the lightsaber and charge off to battle First Order? I was completely expecting Luke to be very reluctant to come out of his self-imposed exile. My expectations about that were completely fulfilled (okay, I did not expect him to throw the lightsaber away in a comical fashion).

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think some thought that the sequels would focus on Luke, Han and Leia alone like many of the old EU novels and not have them 'pass the torch' which they ended up doing instead.

    It'd be kind of silly to have the 60ish Mark Hammill do the somersaults and lightsaber moves of his OT self. Even what we did see in TLJ was limited. Granted, we had Lee and Mcdiarmid do that in the prequels, but it's very obvious they had a lot of CG help or stunt doubles with their heads pasted on....and of course the ANH Obi-Wan/Vader fight is often one Star Wars fans point out as one of the weaker ones. Classic scenes? Sure. But not exactly up to the level of other saber battles.

    As for Han his role was less physically demanding I think, he just really had to run around and point the blaster. That's why I'm a bit worried about Indy V. It was obvious in Crystal Skull-Lebouf did a lot more of the physical work, they pretty much had Indy stick with fistfights and driving stuff.
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  6. #36
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    Honestly, I think most people were expecting the sequels to focus on Luke, Leila and Han and to have them pass the torch to the ‘next generation’. Because the movies easily could have done both, do the official send off for the originals and set up the current future characters.

  7. #37
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    I think it was too late to do 'pass the torch' type transitional story: original cast was too old to take the central stage anymore. Also it would have required the new cast to do another trilogy (otherwise, what for to pass the torch?) and that was far from certain even in Disney's original plans.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think people are too hung up to the idea that the primary motivation for the revelation that Rey was a 'nobody' was some kind of statement that you can be a Jedi without being related to some other famous Force user. That was a secondary or tertiary motivation only. Main point was to provide a character moment for Rey, who up until that point had been daydreaming that her parents had been something special and all that what happened to her had a point. It's a very natural thing for an abandoned orphan to dream about, and she had that bubble burst.

    Personally I was sick & tired of the inbredness of the Star Wars universe, and if Johnson rolled it back even just a tiny bit, more power to him I say.
    Well, then Kylo Ren as a character must 100% suck for you, on every level (concept, execution, favoritism, etc.)

    And so must The Last Jedi, since it’s far more unoriginal than even TFA - at least the first film had the decency to write its characters as human beings who is choices made sense to echo some parts of the past, and they weren’t shanghaied into retreading scenes in a ways that didn’t make sense with a hipster’s arrogance and ignorance, as TLJ did the entire damned time.

    ...Understand, I am using some hyperbole here, but there are some defenses of TLJ that I believe hold no water, as I think they’re just hypocritical, Kylo Ren-favoring double standards.

    Any distaste for Rey being related to the Skywalker or satisfaction that she’s not one only seems “legitimate” to me if you also see all the blindingly obvious problems with Kylo Ren getting promoted to male lead and love interest, and having his defining character moments (mass murder orders that define Finn by his refusal to follow them, mind-rape attempts on Rey in the “Me Too” Era, murdering his loving father in a way that shows he's not Anakin and has less of a soul than Vader) ignored just so we can redo a lesser remake of ROTJ after TFA clearly did that better than TLJ ever can hope to.

    The fact that most “Rey Random” defenders don’t have a problem with Kylo or TLJ tells me they don’t actually care about any attempt at changing Star Wars, or adding originality, or trying to make Star Wars less “inbred” - they want all that, but only for Kylo.

    ...And just this thing about Rey:

    The “character moment” idea for Rey being based on the supposition of her wanting her parents to be someone important only comes from ignoring TFA’s story - Rey doesn’t give a damn about who her parents are beyond them being her parents and coming back for her. She doesn’t want an “inheritance” and a legacy; she wants a family.

    That’s like the entire reason for her major denial flaw in TFA and the crux of the emotional catharsis that comes from Finn unknowingly giving her what she desires most - family that will returns for her - when he brings Han and Chewie after her on SKB.

    Just because Rian Johnson only gave a damn about who someone’s parents were (since that’s basically his justification for kicking her out of her own middle film’s climax when her “randomness” is revealed and rejects Finn in favor of Luke and Kylo as male leads) doesn’t mean Rey did in TFA. The audience did, in part because plenty of people didn’t think LFL would be dumb enough to waste the entire “Legacy Skywalker Kid” idea on just a Neo-Nazi School Shooter and Would-Be-Mind Rapist.

    (Yes, that insult towards Kylo is hyperbolic... but oet’s face it, it’s not that hyperbolic.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I think it was too late to do 'pass the torch' type transitional story: original cast was too old to take the central stage anymore. Also it would have required the new cast to do another trilogy (otherwise, what for to pass the torch?) and that was far from certain even in Disney's original plans.
    It’s ironic, because TLJ is easily the most Original Cast dominated film - it’s less “Part II of Rey’s Trilogy” and more “The Tragic Epilogue of Luke Skywalker.”

    And I seem to remember TFA actually managing to having Han quietly pass the torch to Finn and Rey and actually help make Kylo a bad guy the audience could hate.

    For a transitional film, TFA was clearly the story of Rey and Finn more than Han, and still managed to make $700 million more than TLJ...

    It’s almost like some of the maligned “conventional” decisions of TFA weren’t so much copy cat habits on the part of Abrams and Kasdan, but actually measured and emotionally accurate gauges of how an audience would react...

    Sadly, it seems no one at LFL, including likely Abrams if the Rey Kenobi idea was concrete at any point, realized that after TFA, Rey Skywalker was the only real way to keep Rey’s Story and the Skywalker Family Story from becoming liabilities for each other.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Well, then Kylo Ren as a character must 100% suck for you, on every level (concept, execution, favoritism, etc.)

    And so must The Last Jedi, since it’s far more unoriginal than even TFA - at least the first film had the decency to write its characters as human beings who is choices made sense to echo some parts of the past, and they weren’t shanghaied into retreading scenes in a ways that didn’t make sense with a hipster’s arrogance and ignorance, as TLJ did the entire damned time.
    Yes yes you really hate TLJ, we get it. No need to retread that argument for 10th billion time. I will just say I prefer TLJ because for all its many flaws, it was more interesting. TFA was well-made but quite uninteresting film. It bored me. And that's where I leave it.

    Kylo Ren's relation to Skywalkers was not used for a surprise factor. They played it pretty straight: right at the beginning we were told that he has some sort connection to the New Republic and halfway through we were told what it was: he was son of Han and Leia. By contrast, any revelation of Rey's parentage could be only played for shock factor - she is actually Skywalker/Palpatine/Kenobi/C3PO! Yawn. We have seen that done before and done better, so what's the point? Also, Kylo had already snatched up the mandatory "related to previous Jedi/Sith" spot so what was Rey going to add to that anymore?

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Any distaste for Rey being related to the Skywalker or satisfaction that she’s not one only seems “legitimate” to me if you also see all the blindingly obvious problems with Kylo Ren getting promoted to male lead and love interest, and having his defining character moments (mass murder orders that define Finn by his refusal to follow them, mind-rape attempts on Rey in the “Me Too” Era, murdering his loving father in a way that shows he's not Anakin and has less of a soul than Vader) ignored just so we can redo a lesser remake of ROTJ after TFA clearly did that better than TLJ ever can hope to.
    ...surprisingly enough, a villain is a bad person? That said, both TFA and TLJ didn't do enough to estabilish where Kylo's massive angst comes from and that is a flaw common to both films.

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    The fact that most “Rey Random” defenders don’t have a problem with Kylo or TLJ tells me they don’t actually care about any attempt at changing Star Wars, or adding originality, or trying to make Star Wars less “inbred” - they want all that, but only for Kylo.
    No, it's about "If we have to have some relation to old cast, then Kylo fills the quota and lets leave it at that".

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    The “character moment” idea for Rey being based on the supposition of her wanting her parents to be someone important only comes from ignoring TFA’s story - Rey doesn’t give a damn about who her parents are beyond them being her parents and coming back for her. She doesn’t want an “inheritance” and a legacy; she wants a family.
    That's not how I read Rey's character in TFA, to me it clearly looked like she wanted all that to have some sort of point, but whatever. In fact TLJ's revelation was foreshadowed in TFA when Maz flat out told Rey to forget about her parents.

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    And I seem to remember TFA actually managing to having Han quietly pass the torch to Finn and Rey and actually help make Kylo a bad guy the audience could hate.
    Kinda like Luke in TLJ, hmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    For a transitional film, TFA was clearly the story of Rey and Finn more than Han, and still managed to make $700 million more than TLJ...
    Well yes, much has been made of the fact that TLJ brought less box office than TFA. What, then, should we think of the fact that ESB made only half of what first Star Wars made? Same was noticeable with prequel trilogy too.

  10. #40
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    I kind of wonder if Han's death was part of the deal for Harrison to return, since he's been trying to do that since the Original trilogy. I don't think he would've stayed for all three films (although of course he did have the small bit in ROS).
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  11. #41

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    Rey Nobody> Rey Palpatine> Rey Kenobi

    I'm tired of the narrative that the force only gravitates towards certain bloodlines or circles. Star Wars takes place in a galaxy, I'm fine with a nobody/new player getting strong too.
    december 21st has passed where are my superpowers?

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post

    Kylo Ren's relation to Skywalkers was not used for a surprise factor. They played it pretty straight: right at the beginning we were told that he has some sort connection to the New Republic and halfway through we were told what it was: he was son of Han and Leia. By contrast, any revelation of Rey's parentage could be only played for shock factor - she is actually Skywalker/Palpatine/Kenobi/C3PO! Yawn. We have seen that done before and done better, so what's the point? Also, Kylo had already snatched up the mandatory "related to previous Jedi/Sith" spot so what was Rey going to add to that anymore?

    ...

    No, it's about "If we have to have some relation to old cast, then Kylo fills the quota and lets leave it at that.
    Two things here:

    1. It’s shallow and short sighted to think that the main purpose of Rey being revealed as a Skywalker or Solo (or even Kenobi or Palpatine for that matter) is only about a surprise or shock factor - particualrly since the enitre purpose of such a reveal isn’t about a shock or surprise, but instead about what it does for the characters and story (A LOT.)

    Kylo clearly benefits from TLJ, TROS and LFL just insisting we know what he’s about because of who his parents are, and that we should be invested and care about Kylo because of who his parents are, and that his story is dramatic and feasibly because of who his parents are. In fact, that’s kind of all that Kylo has going for him outside fo his severely overqualified actor.

    Rey Related To Anyone likewise gains that advantage, and it assuredly better than having the second film insist she doesn’t have a place in the story and shooing her off to the side so the Skywalker can do their thing. I mean, Rey Random is kind of punished in TLJ; TLJ honestly sucks at selling that idea.

    But Rey Skywalker would put her in the conundrum of finding out her father was a great hero!... who is now a broken man who’s actions seem cowardly and who still wound up de-facto abdnaoning her on a desert planet. And Rey Solo would reveal that, hey, you have family!... your brother is the creep who violated your mind and deprived you of your father right after you met him, and the only way you might save your family (old and new) is to kill him. Even Rey Palpatine, as much as I dislike it, at least offers her a stained legacy to haunt her, as compared to the barren demotion that Rey Random gave her in TLJ.

    But the main thing it adds to the story is simple, and I honestly think the argument here is a bit more about the nature of Star Wars: Rey Skywalker or Solo would mean the kind of escapist happy ending that ROTJ supplied is still on the table, and we have a reason to be curious about Luke’s inter-Trilogy adventures. Ben Solo/Kylo a Ren on his own is kind of just a damning of that idea after TFA, which leads me to this:

    2. Kylo filling a “quota” of Skywalker family members is simply a bad philosophy to use for the character. On the one hand, doing it that way means you are insisting his bloodline matters to a signifcant amount, probably beyond whatever his actual characterization is and beyond other characters’ functions on the story (like Rey or Finn). But on the other hand, this only happens this particular way if you have a very pessimistic, cynical, and depressing view of the Skywalkers - you’re arguing they’re defined by only Vader’s legacy and not by Luke, Leia, Han, or even pre-fall Anakin. But even LFL and even TLJ’s viewpoint doesn’t seem to really be consistent here - if all that mattered to the Skywalker legacy was the darkness, than there’d be no charade of Kylo being sympathetic.

    This is what I mean when I say that I don’t think there’s a good reason to like Rey not being a Skywalker but still find Kylo acceptable - if you like Kylo as a Solo, then you’d like Rey as a Solo or Skywalker... unless you like Kylo better than Rey, or you don’t like the Skywalkers.

    That's not how I read Rey's character in TFA, to me it clearly looked like she wanted all that to have some sort of point, but whatever. In fact TLJ's revelation was foreshadowed in TFA when Maz flat out told Rey to forget about her parents.
    If you don’t read a desire for family over a desire for identity into TFA, than you’re missing out on the catharsis of Finn coming back for Rey and her realizing he's her “found family”, and you’re also having a weird standard for why she would turn down a chance to join up with Han when offered the chance, as that’s the perfect set-up for someone wanting an important, dignified legacy to it.

    I just don’t think it’s legitmate to try and read a wholly identity-based issue into Rey when her emotional desire for family is far more pronounced emphasized, and integrated into her interactions with characters like Finn and Han; all that’s doing is using the same shallow, less character-focused and more audience-focused abstract viewpoint of TLJ... which ends up telling us more about Rian Johnson being a bit of a hipster with a cynical side and a preoccupation with “White Dude Man-Pain” than it does about the actual human beings he’s ostensibly writing.
    Kinda like Luke in TLJ, hmm?
    ...Luke didn’t “pass the torch” in TLJ.

    If it weren’t for the desultory, last second “I will not be the last Jedi” statement he made, their wouldn’t even be a nominal ghost of tie between him and Rey. Heck,the entire point of the story in TLJ is arguably that Luke isn’t passing the torch to Rey or training her or treating her as his surrogate daughter - her main purpose in the film is to be an audience member to question why Luke’s going through his story, then be Kylo Ren’s Manic Pixie Dream Girl.

    Let me be a bit more imaginative for myself here; as much as I do believe that any non-Rey Related answer was going to inevitably lead to pitting the needs fo Rey’s story against the needs of the Skywalker story, and simply be a less interesting, profitable, or 8maginative answer... I *did* think there was potential in Rey Random.

    Rey’s best story as a character is still TFA. Without a doubt. It’s the only one not encumbered by the trashy approach towards a Kylo Ren romance, and has a much stronger personality story for her as she changes within it. In TLJ she is a plot tool. In TROS, they’re trying to cram in three films of story into one character because TLJ nixed all her characterization from TFA that was inconvenient.

    But the most important thing was that TFA Rey didn’t need any legacy answers because she was written well. She was a flawed protagonist with dynamic character growth, a believable bond with the other characters and a feud with Kylo, and a hauntingly lonely backstory. If you took that character, took that base, and grew her as a Non-Skywalker main hero, who has to fight back against a more powerful Force User in Kylo, and who can be a parallel “Everyman strikes back” hero like Finn was in TFA, you’ve got soemthing. Make her Luke’s surrogate daughter and last pupil, so that she basically earns her place as his “heir”, youve got soemthing... you can make Rey Random fantastic. The Skywalkers are still screwed with Kylo, but it could happen.

    What you can’t do is waste her second film on a banal, out-of-character identity crisis that doesn’t build her up even on a flawed level, demands she be an innocent Ingenue for Kylo’s story, then forbid her from being in the climax when you give it to the family characters you care about more than her. But that’s what TLJ did.

    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    Rey Nobody> Rey Palpatine> Rey Kenobi

    I'm tired of the narrative that the force only gravitates towards certain bloodlines or circles. Star Wars takes place in a galaxy, I'm fine with a nobody/new player getting strong too.
    Y’see, I think Finn fans actually get that statement, but they also bitterly know that it doesn’t apply to the TLJ - Finn fans had a film where it didn’t matter that Finn was a new character separated from any major bloodlines, he was still the male lead, and it was massively successful... then we had to watch as an inherently inferior character in Kylo took his spot almost entirely because of who his parents were.

    The way I see it, TLJ and LFL very nearly demoted and destroyed the new heroes of the ST for not being Skywalkers... and its excuse was to argue we should move past the Skywalkers.

    It’s a double standard - either heritage does matter, and Rey should be a Skywalker because it’s too valuable of an asset to deprive you’re first female primary hero of, or heritage doesn’t matter, and they shouldn’t have wasted their time pretending Kylo was the male lead over Finn, or giving Rey’s second film to Luke.

    The cat was out of the bag when Kylo was made a Solo. You either kill the cat because you don’t want it, or you raise it as you pet. You don’t hit it with a baseball bat but then feed it your hamster.
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    I’m glad they made Kylo the skywalker blood as I didn’t want another Dark Maul, just here to be the villain and die character. It gave stakes that now the opposing force to Luke, Leia and Han was their son. I say Kylo’s heritage brought more to Leia, Luke and Hans storyline than Kylo’s.

    But a Rey Orphan but she’s really Rey Skywalker, Rey Solo, Rey Kenobi, would have have been bad. Now if Rey were the protagonist and raised with Luke is one thing. But Rey an orphan but secretly a Skywalker would have sucked the big one.

    Glad they didn’t do it.

    But TFA really sucked for Rey’s arc. As she doesn’t choose her path at all in the film, and is just going where the plot is forced to take her. (Except when she chooses not to sell BB-8 and at the end offscreen when she chooses to find Luke for Leia).

    TLJ allowed her to make decisions, learn from her mistakes and move on from there with growth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    I’m glad they made Kylo the skywalker blood as I didn’t want another Dark Maul, just here to be the villain and die character. It gave stakes that now the opposing force to Luke, Leia and Han was their son. I say Kylo’s heritage brought more to Leia, Luke and Hans storyline than Kylo’s.

    But a Rey Orphan but she’s really Rey Skywalker, Rey Solo, Rey Kenobi, would have have been bad. Now if Rey were the protagonist and raised with Luke is one thing. But Rey an orphan but secretly a Skywalker would have sucked the big one.

    Glad they didn’t do it.

    But TFA really sucked for Rey’s arc. As she doesn’t choose her path at all in the film, and is just going where the plot is forced to take her. (Except when she chooses not to sell BB-8 and at the end offscreen when she chooses to find Luke for Leia).

    TLJ allowed her to make decisions, learn from her mistakes and move on from there with growth.
    Rey *IS* the protagonist.

    That’s the problem - she shouldn’t have her own story overshadowed or undermined by either the OT3 or Kylo/Ben.

    And she *does* make her choices in TFA - it’s just those choices actually have human reasoning and psychology behind them, unlike TLJ, because her perspective makes sense. While she doesn’t want to join the Resistance due to her being in denial about being abandoned and desperately wanting her family to return to her... she also wants to help BB-8 and Finn because the Resistance is clearly better than the FO and because they end up working together to survive the FO attacking them. And while she reacts towards the villains, that’s because they’re portrayed as actually competent and hate-able villain - especially Kylo Ren.

    And she does learns from her mistakes: when her denial and fear of confronting her abandonment gets her mind violated and ends up with her having to watch as a father figure gets murdered and a found family member gets maimed, she actually answers the call of the Force, takes the saber, and goes to Luke - not just to recruit him, as TLJ wants to insist, but because she needs to fight against Kylo Ren.

    Rey isn’t making her own choices in TLJ because her choices have no motive, humanity, or logic - the film wants her to help Kylo because it wants her to help Kylo, and that’s all. It doesn’t want to address what Kylo did to her, to learn from her mistakes in TFA, or to learn from Han’s mistake in TFA, or have a brain, or empathy for anyone not named Kylo, or to learn her lesson at the end of its own runtime and kill the Neo-Nazi when she has thee chance.

    Rey’s aa scrappy, flawed, survivalist character in TFA. In TLJ, she’s a wide-eyed plot tool for the story.

    And I’m sorry, but what’s actually the problem with Rey possibly being a Skywalker? Is it Kylo losing his monopoly on the legacy story, so he’d have to actually stand on his own as a character? Is it that it would probably kill Reylo, so that trashy mess couldn’t exist? Is it that you want to be “swerved” so badly, an intrinsically stronger character idea is unacceptable once it becomes a predictable answer to a mystery?

    This is my thing - you like Kylo as a Solo, you ain’t got any ground to stand on if you want to complain about the possibility of Rey Skywalker.
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  15. #45
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Rey *IS* the protagonist.

    That’s the problem - she shouldn’t have her own story overshadowed or undermined by either the OT3 or Kylo/Ben.
    I think Disney trilogy suffers from being unable to decide who actually is the protagonist. In TFA, protagonist is primarily Finn. In TLJ, Finn is shoved into side story while Rey has the decisive storyline. In TRoS, it is even more noticeable that the story is about Rey and Kylo, probably because even most TLJ haters thought that Kylo/Rey chemistry was good. So they picked up & went with that ball. This was, as you surely remember, John Boyega's recent criticism about handling his character - and to significant degree, I agree with him.

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Rey’s aa scrappy, flawed, survivalist character in TFA. In TLJ, she’s a wide-eyed plot tool for the story.
    That was kind of the point. In TLJ, they showed that Rey has power, but she is mentally not ready for the big league. She is too naive and easily manipulated.

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    And I’m sorry, but what’s actually the problem with Rey possibly being a Skywalker? Is it Kylo losing his monopoly on the legacy story, so he’d have to actually stand on his own as a character? Is it that it would probably kill Reylo, so that trashy mess couldn’t exist? Is it that you want to be “swerved” so badly, an intrinsically stronger character idea is unacceptable once it becomes a predictable answer to a mystery?
    Already in TFA they showed some chemistry between Rey and Kylo - I very much doubt it was ever in the cards to repeat the 'oh they're too closely related to become an item' thing which Lucas did with Luke and Leia in original trilogy. Rey being Skywalker was likely never a plan, not with Abrams or with Johnson. I get that you don't like how the prestigious Skywalker bloodline was treated in the Disney trilogy. No argument there, Skywalkers were really screwed over. However, I'm not sure how Rey being a Palpatine fixes that - Palpatines and Skywalkers are not related. Rey acquiring the Skywalker name in the end of the trilogy is simply a glorified identity theft.

    Personally, best fan theory I read about Rey's identity was that she was one of the series of Force-sensitive clones Palpatine created. It would have explained the scene in TLJ where Rey sees all these reflections of herself, which move sequentially rather than simultaneously. It would have explained why her parents left Jakku - they were not her parents at all, just some operatives who had done their job - and it would have produced some kind of interesting reveal for the fans. Also, army of evil Reys in the last movie would have been so hot!

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