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  1. #61

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    I'm glad we got Rey Palpatine. You don't create a powerful young force user and purposely hide her parents identity then two years later say they're actually no one important. That would've been a waste of buildup. I would've preferred Rey Kenobi but being a Palpatine is better than nothing.

  2. #62
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
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    Despite his slight relationship with Satine and his slight bending of Jedi rules, I can't quite see Obi-Wan breaking the Jedi's attachment/celibacy rules, as he was pretty much Jedi to the core otherwise.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by BushidoBlade2 View Post
    I'm glad we got Rey Palpatine. You don't create a powerful young force user and purposely hide her parents identity then two years later say they're actually no one important.
    Why not? Some people would be expecting the opposite but these aren't hard and fast rules.


    That would've been a waste of buildup.
    A waste is exactly what we got with Rey being a Palpatine.

  4. #64
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    To bring back Palpatine was truly a facepalm worthy move but to be fair at least it somewhat gives a reason why Rey is stupidly overpowered.

    Now, the interesting question is did they bring back captain lightning to cut some of the crap they were taking cause of Reysus Christ or was it just plain good ol' lazy, it rimes, Abrams' BS writing?

    The hen or the egg?

  5. #65
    Ultimate Member Jackalope89's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Despite his slight relationship with Satine and his slight bending of Jedi rules, I can't quite see Obi-Wan breaking the Jedi's attachment/celibacy rules, as he was pretty much Jedi to the core otherwise.
    Back in the Jedi Apprentice novels, Obi-Wan, while still a Padawan for Qui-Gon, actually abandoned the order to help the citizens of a planet torn apart by civil war. With Obi-Wan joining the kids faction (only ones not wanting to actually fight, but wanting peace).

  6. #66
    Ultimate Member WebLurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    To bring back Palpatine was truly a facepalm worthy move but to be fair at least it somewhat gives a reason why Rey is stupidly overpowered.

    Now, the interesting question is did they bring back captain lightning to cut some of the crap they were taking cause of Reysus Christ or was it just plain good ol' lazy, it rimes, Abrams' BS writing?

    The hen or the egg?
    "Well, when you look at this as nine chapters of a story, perhaps the weirder thing would be if Palpatine didn't return. You just look at what he talks about, who he is, how important he is, what the story is - strangely, his absence entirely from the third trilogy would be conspicuous. It would be very weird. That's not to say there was a bible and we knew what happens at every step. But when Larry Kasdan and I worked on The Force Awakens, we didn't do it in a vacuum. We very purposely looked at what came before. We chose to tell a story that touches upon specific things and themes and ideas that we've seen before, to begin a new story. But we examined all that came before to ask where does this feel like it's going?

    "So there were discussions about that at the time. Yet, like any beginning, you want to put the threads in, but you don't want to necessarily be literal about everything. And then when Rian was brought on to do The Last Jedi, we met and we talked about things and he wrote his story. And when I read the script, I realized this didn't get in the way of anything Larry and I talked about that I thought I'd get to. There were some very specific things we did get to do in this movie that we were laughing and going, 'Oh my god, we're finally doing that thing we talked about five years ago." - J. J. Abrams
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  7. #67
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    Lazy BS writing then? Good to know.

    Can't say i'm really surprised.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starter Set View Post
    To bring back Palpatine was truly a facepalm worthy move but to be fair at least it somewhat gives a reason why Rey is stupidly overpowered.

    Now, the interesting question is did they bring back captain lightning to cut some of the crap they were taking cause of Reysus Christ or was it just plain good ol' lazy, it rimes, Abrams' BS writing?

    The hen or the egg?
    It’s actually a bit more clear than that; Palpatine came back for the same reason Rey’s story got derailed in TLJ and why she became a character simultaneously too powerful for an external conflict yet too weakly drawn as a character to be interesting after a promising start in TFA:

    LFL couldn’t bare the idea of Kylo Ren being the main villain and having to cash the check TLJ wrote of him ascending to leadership.

    Really... its’ actually pretty simple of you realize that every argument made about why Rey Skywalker would be “boring” and “predictable” was actually being used hypocritically on Kylo, who’s so pathetically banal and unsympathetic it basically required neutering any of Rey’s potential either as a Random or as a potential Skywalker because that wouldn’t let him exploit the monopoly on the family tie he had.

    Basically, it’s a three part mistake:

    - It’s all but confirmed that Rey’s original version was a Solo sister (Thea) to the earliest version of Finn/Ben (Sam), but when Abrams and Kasdan created Finn for the male lead and combined the Jedi Killer with Sam’s Solo blood, they decided to do a mystery box on Rey. This was ultimately a stupid idea, because it mean that either the next writer would have to make the neccessary explanations for the only answer that could really work to maintain equilibrium, embrace an anti-Skywalker stance where to maintain equilibrium Kylo is portrayed as completely unsympathetic, or worst of all, get distracted by Kylo... and **** up Rey, Finn, Kylo, and the Skywalkers all at once.

    - Then Rian Johnson... fucked up Rey, Finn, Kylo and the Skywalkers all at once. Finn got demoted and shoved aside out of apathy for not being Kylo, Luke got grown under the bus only for Kylo instead of at least trying to use him for Rey’s sake, Kylo got reinterpreted as a pretty boy we should care about in a hypocritical double standard he enjoyed, and Rey got made into a plot tool for fawning over Kylo.

    Fundamentally, TLJ is where things got screwiest with Rey and the Skywalkers. Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel show you can have über powerful female heroes and still tell a good story with good characterization for them... but you can’t have good characterization if Rey's main thing became falling for the Neo-Nazi School Shooter who tried to sexually assault her mind and murdered and maimed her found family.

    - Then because TROS was trying to respect the characterizations of TLJ, and because LFL couldn’t bear letting their golden boy be the target of audience boos, we got Palpatine back so we could pretend that TLJ’s characterizations made sense and get Ben Solo as Rey’s parasitic abusive love interest.

    Yeah, I’m saying that Palpatine's back more because of LFL wanting to follow up Reylo and Ben Solo apologism than any attempt to help Rey.

    Because honestly, of helping Rey was LFL’ priority, than she’d either have been retconned into a Skywalker, or we wouldn’t have to waste time with Ben Solo.
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  9. #69
    Astonishing Member Ptrvc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    It’s actually a bit more clear than that; Palpatine came back for the same reason Rey’s story got derailed in TLJ and why she became a character simultaneously too powerful for an external conflict yet too weakly drawn as a character to be interesting after a promising start in TFA:

    LFL couldn’t bare the idea of Kylo Ren being the main villain and having to cash the check TLJ wrote of him ascending to leadership.

    Really... its’ actually pretty simple of you realize that every argument made about why Rey Skywalker would be “boring” and “predictable” was actually being used hypocritically on Kylo, who’s so pathetically banal and unsympathetic it basically required neutering any of Rey’s potential either as a Random or as a potential Skywalker because that wouldn’t let him exploit the monopoly on the family tie he had.

    Basically, it’s a three part mistake:

    - It’s all but confirmed that Rey’s original version was a Solo sister (Thea) to the earliest version of Finn/Ben (Sam), but when Abrams and Kasdan created Finn for the male lead and combined the Jedi Killer with Sam’s Solo blood, they decided to do a mystery box on Rey. This was ultimately a stupid idea, because it mean that either the next writer would have to make the neccessary explanations for the only answer that could really work to maintain equilibrium, embrace an anti-Skywalker stance where to maintain equilibrium Kylo is portrayed as completely unsympathetic, or worst of all, get distracted by Kylo... and **** up Rey, Finn, Kylo, and the Skywalkers all at once.

    - Then Rian Johnson... fucked up Rey, Finn, Kylo and the Skywalkers all at once. Finn got demoted and shoved aside out of apathy for not being Kylo, Luke got grown under the bus only for Kylo instead of at least trying to use him for Rey’s sake, Kylo got reinterpreted as a pretty boy we should care about in a hypocritical double standard he enjoyed, and Rey got made into a plot tool for fawning over Kylo.

    Fundamentally, TLJ is where things got screwiest with Rey and the Skywalkers. Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel show you can have über powerful female heroes and still tell a good story with good characterization for them... but you can’t have good characterization if Rey's main thing became falling for the Neo-Nazi School Shooter who tried to sexually assault her mind and murdered and maimed her found family.

    - Then because TROS was trying to respect the characterizations of TLJ, and because LFL couldn’t bear letting their golden boy be the target of audience boos, we got Palpatine back so we could pretend that TLJ’s characterizations made sense and get Ben Solo as Rey’s parasitic abusive love interest.

    Yeah, I’m saying that Palpatine's back more because of LFL wanting to follow up Reylo and Ben Solo apologism than any attempt to help Rey.

    Because honestly, of helping Rey was LFL’ priority, than she’d either have been retconned into a Skywalker, or we wouldn’t have to waste time with Ben Solo.
    Kylo only exists to kill off the Skywalker legacy. All his shittiness is built up to invalidate the prior movies.

    And you bring up superhero movies, but Star Wars is not a superhero universe. Leaving out the EU it never has been. Sure Jedi are powerful butthurt threat that Palpatine always represented was subtle and manipulative, even being arguably the strongest character in the series. Not dropping down to wreck planets with his bare hands.

    But of course Rey can. Tell me is she half dragon and half vampire too?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ptrvc View Post
    Kylo only exists to kill off the Skywalker legacy. All his shittiness is built up to invalidate the prior movies.

    And you bring up superhero movies, but Star Wars is not a superhero universe. Leaving out the EU it never has been. Sure Jedi are powerful butthurt threat that Palpatine always represented was subtle and manipulative, even being arguably the strongest character in the series. Not dropping down to wreck planets with his bare hands.

    But of course Rey can. Tell me is she half dragon and half vampire too?
    Can you edit or cleanup your post a bit? I am having a hard time understanding it. The bolded part doesn't make sense, grammatically speaking to me at least.
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  11. #71
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    I think they wrote themselves into a corner n said let’s just bring back Sidious. That n killing off Snoke...they could have built kylo into a more interesting character maybe do flash backs of Snoke and give him a back story

    Nah let’s just have Rey beat the most powerful dark side user in history...

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