Thoughts on Kindred?

[Spidey_62]

I'm gonna put my money in the crazy theory and said that Kindred is Judas Traveller

I second this, I believe I've also previously said here it's Judas Traveller for the laughs lmao.

(I do want to see him return someday and not as a gag)

[TheCape]

I second this, I believe I've also previously said here it's Judas Traveller for the laughs lmao.

(I do want to see him return someday and not as a gag)

I mean a lot of this run sometimes feel like a love letter to DeMatteis, maybe is not that crazy lol.

[Jman27]

I mean a lot of this run sometimes feel like a love letter to DeMatteis, maybe is not that crazy lol.

who is Judas Traveller?

[TheCape]

who is Judas Traveller?

A characther from the Clone Saga, whose whole deal was that he has mystical reality warping powers and wanted to study "the nature of evil'', he is pretty unpopular fir design and his vaguely defined motives that apparently only DeMatteis knew what they were, long story short, JD left the storyline and he was revealed into being a crazy mutant that used to be a doctor who suffered some sort of nervous breakdown and convince himself that he was an acient indivual that has walked the earth for centuries but in reality was just a mutant that could alter your perception of reality.

[Spidey_62]

A characther from the Clone Saga, whose whole deal was that he has mystical reality warping powers and wanted to study "the nature of evil'', he is pretty unpopular fir design and his vaguely defined motives that apparently only DeMatteis knew what they were, long story short, JD left the storyline and he was revealed into being a crazy mutant that used to be a doctor who suffered some sort of nervous breakdown and convince himself that he was an acient indivual that has walked the earth for centuries but in reality was just a mutant that could alter your perception of reality.

I prefer to think of him at his peak JMD mysteriousness rather than the "clone saga is wrapping up, we gotta explain that dude away" retcon.

That dude was cool, he wore like 3 belts and had big boots, and tons of jewelry, and he had a cool posse plus him and his posse would turn into birds and fly away and stuff. Yeah.

[Kingkalamari]

I agree 100%. What makes a story memorable or not is time. I think of a movie called Plan 9 From Outer Space. It is considered by many the worst film of All-Time, but it is better remembered then many Oscar winners ( think Geena Davis who actually won two and most people cannot name either film she won for). Will Kindred be talked about like Kraven’s Last Hunt ( good) or Sins Past ( bad)? Let’s see in 2030.

Most people know what Plan 9 and it's legacy is moreso than they've seen it, tbh. More people have probably seen Thelma & Louise over the original Plan 9, who's memory is kept alive by Oscar winning "Ed Wood" moreso than the legacy itself, tho Oscars are just a big con to begin with, so digress.

Strongly disagree with time determining how memorable a story can become however. JMS stories were hated then and hated now for their dark and cruel themes like in Shed and Gauntlet, and of course the loathed OMD. Slott's stories are still as divided as ever with a line in the sand over stories like Superior Spiderman being brilliant status quo shakeups or a mean spirited middle finger to all spider fans. If anything, time can make a good story look worse. Going back to Plan 9 and people's perceived ideas of Plan 9, most people remember the Hobgoblin story for the reputation it has, rather than the story it brought to the table itself, which is a behind the scenes headache of fighting between visions on who the Hobgoblin was. Sometimes a negative reaction like say, Secret Empire can be better on hindsight after the haze of controversy dies off, but ultimately I feel most of the time the opinions then are the opinions that stick.

Most should have an idea of what to expect from Spencer at this point, with us at issue #50(really being well past that). Hes great at interweaving overarching stories for a big reveal, he writes with the identity in mind opposed to making it up as he goes(example: many shots in his Sam Wilson run are framed with intent that upon reread of Hydra Cap reveal, a otherwise footnote scene suddenly becomes a covert hint of the reveal). He also loves his baddies and writes them with heart. We've already seen that across the map here and no doubt I think Kindred will have some degree of tragedy to them. One can safely assume that, the biggest story that a writer built his run around, will be the one with the most effort for great storytelling put into it, that we already know hes capable of. Given Sins Rising being fantastic already and basically just the prologue to Last Remains, cant imagine it losing steam here, and even if Kindred's identity is not what I'm expecting, I'm confident something great is planned for LR.

bob raises great points on the identity of Kindred though, its certainly good to keep your expectations of Kindred's identity within reason, as the more and more and more expository is required to justify whoever you think Kindred is, the more likely you'll be let down and it wont likely be the case. Like hoping for Goku or Spiderman to be in Super Smash Brothers, keep at least a reasonable expectation.

[NC_Yankee]

Most people know what Plan 9 and it's legacy is moreso than they've seen it, tbh. More people have probably seen Thelma & Louise over the original Plan 9, who's memory is kept alive by Oscar winning "Ed Wood" moreso than the legacy itself, tho Oscars are just a big con to begin with, so digress.

Strongly disagree with time determining how memorable a story can become however. JMS stories were hated then and hated now for their dark and cruel themes like in Shed and Gauntlet, and of course the loathed OMD. Slott's stories are still as divided as ever with a line in the sand over stories like Superior Spiderman being brilliant status quo shakeups or a mean spirited middle finger to all spider fans. If anything, time can make a good story look worse. Going back to Plan 9 and people's perceived ideas of Plan 9, most people remember the Hobgoblin story for the reputation it has, rather than the story it brought to the table itself, which is a behind the scenes headache of fighting between visions on who the Hobgoblin was. Sometimes a negative reaction like say, Secret Empire can be better on hindsight after the haze of controversy dies off, but ultimately I feel most of the time the opinions then are the opinions that stick.

Most should have an idea of what to expect from Spencer at this point, with us at issue #50(really being well past that). Hes great at interweaving overarching stories for a big reveal, he writes with the identity in mind opposed to making it up as he goes(example: many shots in his Sam Wilson run are framed with intent that upon reread of Hydra Cap reveal, a otherwise footnote scene suddenly becomes a covert hint of the reveal). He also loves his baddies and writes them with heart. We've already seen that across the map here and no doubt I think Kindred will have some degree of tragedy to them. One can safely assume that, the biggest story that a writer built his run around, will be the one with the most effort for great storytelling put into it, that we already know hes capable of. Given Sins Rising being fantastic already and basically just the prologue to Last Remains, cant imagine it losing steam here, and even if Kindred's identity is not what I'm expecting, I'm confident something great is planned for LR.

bob raises great points on the identity of Kindred though, its certainly good to keep your expectations of Kindred's identity within reason, as the more and more and more expository is required to justify whoever you think Kindred is, the more likely you'll be let down and it wont likely be the case. Like hoping for Goku or Spiderman to be in Super Smash Brothers, keep at least a reasonable expectation.

I am sure more people saw Thelma and Louise then Plan 9 ( or The Accidental Tourist GeenaÂ’s other Oscar winner) but most people are not thinking Geena in that movie ( I thought she was hot so I did), but more people are aware ( right or wrong) of Plan 9 then Geena. As for JMS I have been very critical of him I even noted that Spencer is better then the last two Spider-Man writers. Shed is one story I overlooked but certainly considered cruel and unnecessary, but over time I forgot about ( unlike The Other, Sins Past OMD etc). I am one of those who thought Slott gave a middle finger to the fans ( think his snarky comments and stories like Jackpot) and have him a grade of F ( JMS I have a D but adding Shed to that drives it down to a D Minus for me). The time element is still crucial. Think of The Death of Gwen Stacy, it is discussed and referred to almost 50 years after 121 came out (this from someone who actually prefers 122). Why? The time element.

[Snoop Dogg]

kindred is an oc

[tv horror]

My new theory is that Kindred is the Burglar. Spider-Man scared life out of the Burglar and let him die of a heart attack. The burglar also briefly worked with Mysterio when Mysterio was using the Reinhart disguise.

If Kindred is the burglar, why would he have an emotional outburst at the sight of Peter revealing his civilian identity to Black Cat? My ridiculous stretch is that the burglar is ticked off that Peter "wrongly attacked him" while he was burglarizing the Parker home looking for Malone's treasure whereas the Black Cat is also a high profile burglar and Peter deciding to reveal himself to her shows that Peter is a hypocrite.

What is the connection to Kingpin? Who knows.

What is the connection to Osborn? Realistically, only a few people have defeated Spider-Man; the Burglar, Norman Osborn/Green Goblin, Harry Osborn (the fake parents storyline), Kraven the Hunter and Doctor Octopus. Only 3 of them have truly destroyed Peter's life; the burglar (killed Ben), Norman Osborn (killed Gwen, clone saga, Sins Past) and Harry (again - the fake parents) I'm sure reality can be stretched to have Norman somehow connected to the Burglar - which itself is annoying having Norman attached to Peter's life in so many ways.

Peter...I AM your father!!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha

[bob.schoonover]

kindred is an oc

An Orange County what?

[TheCape]

An Orange County what?

Is a term in fanfic when someone creates a characther that doesn't exist in canon, it means Original Characther . Or maybe Snopp was truly talking about Orange County

[TheCape]

I prefer to think of him at his peak JMD mysteriousness rather than the "clone saga is wrapping up, we gotta explain that dude away" retcon.

That dude was cool, he wore like 3 belts and had big boots, and tons of jewelry, and he had a cool posse plus him and his posse would turn into birds and fly away and stuff. Yeah.

If he doesn't return with his 3 belts and without his mysterious aura of mistery, then why wouod they even bother

[Gwen Parker]

Judas Traveler was a bit before my time... I don't know much about the dude

[Dasklein83]

Fairly sure he's the part of Peter(and possibly MJ) tossed into hell from OMD. Knowing the way Spencer writes, where he likes to lay out heavy foreshadowing so subsequent rereads recontextualizes the story after the big reveal(Captain America: Sam Wilson was a big one with this in all the chapters prior to Stevil reveal), I think he primed the core of his initial Spidey run to be build around Kindred, with a brooding mystery of their identity in the vein of Hobgoblin or such, and has littered his run with hints of Kindred's identity. Of course I should say I don't really know what Kindred's plans are outside of making Parker suffer, which is exciting going into Last Remains, which i think will be more exciting to figure out rather than just Kindred's identity. Anywhoo:

* He's been the only other consistent narrator through Spencer's run in the main issues outside Pete, and when he takes over the boxes turn blue, or even overlap with Peter's at times
* Has the Kingpin, who's actions killed Aunt May, kneel to him.
* Kindred is able to control the Tri-Sentinel, which Parker had rewired to only obey him
* When he tells Peter his name, before he says it the next panel is MJ waking him up from his nightmare saying PETE!
* Appears clinging the wall Spidey-esque in his visit to the escaped Mysterio
* Knows Mysterio's psychiatrist persona by name, which Spiderman uncovered after Mysterio tried to discredit him
* Explicitly references One More Day when nothing Mysterio begging for one more chance.
* Won't hurt MJ, intentionally got her out of town to launch his plan
* Knows Spiderman is Peter Parker but has no desire to tell others, only cares about showing Parker's hypocrisy
* During Absolute Carnage, he tells Norman how when Peter looks at Norman, hes reminded of the happy life he couldve had that was taken away, and then adds that the same can be said for himself
* Says they died in a unique way
* not my idea, but pulled from another post- one of the opening stories Parker got split in two, was a fun lesson on responsibility and how both sides of Peter need each other. But it was also about how destructive part of him can be when his conscience is removed.
* comment from elsewhere: When OMD happened, Mephisto said that part of the deal was that even though MJ and Peter'd have their memories erased, there'd always be a part of their souls that remained in Hell, knowing what happened and suffering for eternity
* In the Sins Rising Prelude, Stanley Carter is reliving his memories as Sin-Eater while presented in a late night talk show format, which is where he was after he was released being deemed "cured" from his Sin-Eater persona. Electro, also dead and who interrupted the talk show in the original run, is seen playing drums for the talk show's band, alongside an obscured red haired singer. The host of the show, who is interviewing Carter through his memories of Sin Eater and all the people he killed, resembles Peter Parker from the era of Spectacular Spider-Man, down to the haircut, and when the illusion drops, it's been Kindred talking to Carter the entire time, the only people involved in all these instances being Carter, Electro, and Parker.
* Sin-Eater, upgraded by Kindred's powers, now has the ability to shoot ectoplasmic rounds with his shotgun, which erase the "sins" of those hit and making them new people, essentially a walking retcon machine drawing parallels to OMD erasing Parker's actions.

I think this is the only possible explanation for Kindred’s identity. I’ve been convinced as much since ASM 25. In response to a couple of issues raised, here is my response.

1) Kindred isn’t actually Peter’s soul. He’s a tiny fragment of his soul, or perhaps his memories made manifest, and existing in absolute torment, hell and guilt.

2) Kindred would’ve predated Mysterio in Hell. The time line changed when Mephisto let the criminal out of the police car, thereby starting the chain of events that led Peter to miss the wedding. Mephisto can time travel. Presumably, he took the small piece of Peter’s soul (Kindred) and dumped him in Hell at that point in time, so he could watch the “real” Peter miss the wedding and witness all the other things that changed. So, assuming Kindred is already in Hell by the ASM wedding annual, this predates Guardian Devil.

3) When Kindred confronted Norman, Norman was lost in a complete bout of insanity (even by Norman standards). Of course Norman doesn’t know about OMD. But in the midst of his insanity, on some instinctual level, he realized he was talking to Peter/Kindred/Spider-Man. Remember, Norman tried to break Peter and make him his heir in issues 25 of ASM and PPSM vol 2 back in the late 90s/early 2000s. Hence, the “I’m proud of you.”

4) Marvel is not going to undo OMD. But that doesn’t mean Peter can’t be made to face the consequences of the choices he made in OMD. My suspicion is that, following his confrontation with Kindred, Peter’s guilt over OMD will cause him to abandon his plans of proposing to MJ. He may even break up with her out of a desire to protect her.

[Gwen Parker]

Has anyone else read the CBR exclusive preview for #850? Norman Osborn mentions Kindred in more sound mind than before (proving that he really does know who Kindred is and it wasn't just a bout of insanity) and calls Kindred a "he." (Reinforcing that he's male.)