Thoughts on Kindred?

[PCN24454]

Has anyone else read the CBR exclusive preview for #850? Norman Osborn mentions Kindred in more sound mind than before (proving that he really does know who Kindred is and it wasn't just a bout of insanity) and calls Kindred a "he." (Reinforcing that he's male.)

So was Menace.

[Dasklein83]

Has anyone else read the CBR exclusive preview for #850? Norman Osborn mentions Kindred in more sound mind than before (proving that he really does know who Kindred is and it wasn't just a bout of insanity) and calls Kindred a "he." (Reinforcing that he's male.)

I just read it. I didn’t get the impression that Norman consciously knows who Kindred really is. I just got the impression that Norman knows he’s a major threat who’s coming for them. If they reveal that the OMD Harry was some sort of clone and Kindred is the real Harry who died in Spectacular 200, just shoot me. Harry hadn’t really killed anyone, was a victim of mental illness and his dying act was to save Peter’s life. It makes no sense for him to have wound up in Hell. As for Gwen, why would she be in Hell? Premarital sex with Norman Osborn? Somehow I doubt the Marvel afterlife follows strict Catholic theology.

[Kingkalamari]

I think this is the only possible explanation for Kindred’s identity. I’ve been convinced as much since ASM 25. In response to a couple of issues raised, here is my response.

1) Kindred isn’t actually Peter’s soul. He’s a tiny fragment of his soul, or perhaps his memories made manifest, and existing in absolute torment, hell and guilt.

2) Kindred would’ve predated Mysterio in Hell. The time line changed when Mephisto let the criminal out of the police car, thereby starting the chain of events that led Peter to miss the wedding. Mephisto can time travel. Presumably, he took the small piece of Peter’s soul (Kindred) and dumped him in Hell at that point in time, so he could watch the “real” Peter miss the wedding and witness all the other things that changed. So, assuming Kindred is already in Hell by the ASM wedding annual, this predates Guardian Devil.

3) When Kindred confronted Norman, Norman was lost in a complete bout of insanity (even by Norman standards). Of course Norman doesn’t know about OMD. But in the midst of his insanity, on some instinctual level, he realized he was talking to Peter/Kindred/Spider-Man. Remember, Norman tried to break Peter and make him his heir in issues 25 of ASM and PPSM vol 2 back in the late 90s/early 2000s. Hence, the “I’m proud of you.”

4) Marvel is not going to undo OMD. But that doesn’t mean Peter can’t be made to face the consequences of the choices he made in OMD. My suspicion is that, following his confrontation with Kindred, Peter’s guilt over OMD will cause him to abandon his plans of proposing to MJ. He may even break up with her out of a desire to protect her.

Great points, and to point 4, I agree I dont think were going to see OMD undone as much as, like a poster above you described Kindred, a "OC" that is a walking recuperation of OMD itself, being his own character and maybe even someone who might show up more later down the line even as his plans dont work out(or maybe they do? Who knows coz we dont even know what Kindred wants). This allows Spencer to both address OMD while also not just undoing it, but, like MJ pointed out during OMD, their love could overcome anything that Mephisto could throw at them, which we've already seen by Spencer's run having them back together again.

As to the CBR preview, fwiw we need to remember Kindred stated right before reviving Carter, in flustered rage of Norman's comments, that "He THINKS he knows who I am", which can be read in a couple ways. Granted if it is part of Parker's soul, who believes he's in the right doing what hes doing, nothing probably infuriates him more than having Osborn proud of him, which like Dasklein said, has been a thing Osborn has tried and wished for in the past, and is kinda telling that Osborn is saying the same thing to Parker here that he said to Kindred about being his legacy.

I just read it. I didn’t get the impression that Norman consciously knows who Kindred really is. I just got the impression that Norman knows he’s a major threat who’s coming for them. If they reveal that the OMD Harry was some sort of clone and Kindred is the real Harry who died in Spectacular 200, just shoot me. Harry hadn’t really killed anyone, was a victim of mental illness and his dying act was to save Peter’s life. It makes no sense for him to have wound up in Hell. As for Gwen, why would she be in Hell? Premarital sex with Norman Osborn? Somehow I doubt the Marvel afterlife follows strict Catholic theology.

This pretty much for Harry. His original arc was one of tragedy of being unable to escape his father and holding a false idea of him as he struggled with addiction. He dies at peace with Parker after doing virtually nothing "evil"(Parker even jumps to a bunch of conclusions in #200 that Harry is going to do something, but it turns out all he wants to do is talk and he desperately misses his old life and old friends). After revival, American Son completes his arc of standing up to and turning against his father, and hes been an ally ever since. A lesser writer I could see making these giant retcons, but it just doesnt strike me as something Spencer would do, he clearly had enormous respect for those era's of Spidey, as Hunted showed us basically recuperating the needless revival of Kraven in the 00s.

[NC_Yankee]

Great points, and to point 4, I agree I dont think were going to see OMD undone as much as, like a poster above you described Kindred, a "OC" that is a walking recuperation of OMD itself, being his own character and maybe even someone who might show up more later down the line even as his plans dont work out(or maybe they do? Who knows coz we dont even know what Kindred wants). This allows Spencer to both address OMD while also not just undoing it, but, like MJ pointed out during OMD, their love could overcome anything that Mephisto could throw at them, which we've already seen by Spencer's run having them back together again.

As to the CBR preview, fwiw we need to remember Kindred stated right before reviving Carter, in flustered rage of Norman's comments, that "He THINKS he knows who I am", which can be read in a couple ways. Granted if it is part of Parker's soul, who believes he's in the right doing what hes doing, nothing probably infuriates him more than having Osborn proud of him, which like Dasklein said, has been a thing Osborn has tried and wished for in the past, and is kinda telling that Osborn is saying the same thing to Parker here that he said to Kindred about being his legacy.



This pretty much for Harry. His original arc was one of tragedy of being unable to escape his father and holding a false idea of him as he struggled with addiction. He dies at peace with Parker after doing virtually nothing "evil"(Parker even jumps to a bunch of conclusions in #200 that Harry is going to do something, but it turns out all he wants to do is talk and he desperately misses his old life and old friends). After revival, American Son completes his arc of standing up to and turning against his father, and hes been an ally ever since. A lesser writer I could see making these giant retcons, but it just doesnt strike me as something Spencer would do, he clearly had enormous respect for those era's of Spidey, as Hunted showed us basically recuperating the needless revival of Kraven in the 00s.

I am right at the top of the list of those who expect OMD to be undone. I have given my opinion on this countless times so there is no need to rehash my reasons. I especially do not like the thought of this being Morlun/Totem related. If they decide to go in that direction, I am done. I do not need to waste my time and money getting angry over a comic book ( that is what that story, The Other and Silk did to me). I will spend my free time on my Islanders, Yankees, Nittany Lions and Steelers.

[Hugo Strange]

After Norman Osborn remembers his father/son relationship with Peter and refers he as his legacy in ASM #850 preview, Kindred being Peter Parker' soul from OMD sounds less crazy.

[Spidey_62]

After Norman Osborn remembers his father/son relationship with Peter and refers he as his legacy in ASM #850 preview, Kindred being Peter Parker soul from OMD sounds less crazy.

Seeing these characters remember their history again is so great.

[Yvonmukluk]

I just read it. I didn’t get the impression that Norman consciously knows who Kindred really is. I just got the impression that Norman knows he’s a major threat who’s coming for them. If they reveal that the OMD Harry was some sort of clone and Kindred is the real Harry who died in Spectacular 200, just shoot me. Harry hadn’t really killed anyone, was a victim of mental illness and his dying act was to save Peter’s life. It makes no sense for him to have wound up in Hell. As for Gwen, why would she be in Hell? Premarital sex with Norman Osborn? Somehow I doubt the Marvel afterlife follows strict Catholic theology.

I could see Spencer playing the continuity card and having had Harry make a deal with Mephisto so Norman never died, hence explaining Norman's basically unexplained resurrection (yes, the serum was given as a reason, but that didn't really make any sense - the narration of ASM #122 expressly notes that Norman died from being impaled). Except of course, Mephisto probably made him forget he made the deal, a la OMD, so he wouldn't have even known that Norman was back when he died, but would still be on the hook for the deal. Hence being in hell.

[TheCape]

Absolute Carnage brougth so much attention to Harry that it was probably a red herring.

[Kingkalamari]

I could see Spencer playing the continuity card and having had Harry make a deal with Mephisto so Norman never died, hence explaining Norman's basically unexplained resurrection (yes, the serum was given as a reason, but that didn't really make any sense - the narration of ASM #122 expressly notes that Norman died from being impaled). Except of course, Mephisto probably made him forget he made the deal, a la OMD, so he wouldn't have even known that Norman was back when he died, but would still be on the hook for the deal. Hence being in hell.

Given how badly OMD was recieved and how badly the repeat of it in 2018 Superior Spidey was recieved, I'm doubtful Spencer would opt to use a Mephisto deal as the core of a plot point another time, but who knows!

[PCN24454]

Given how badly OMD was recieved and how badly the repeat of it in 2018 Superior Spidey was recieved, I'm doubtful Spencer would opt to use a Mephisto deal as the core of a plot point another time, but who knows!

It’s because of how controversial the deal is that he’d absolutely use it as a plot point.

[Snoop Dogg]

should i write an erotic kindred fanfic now before the reveal ends up being lame

[bob.schoonover]

should i write an erotic kindred fanfic now before the reveal ends up being lame

Only if you include a Mary Sue

[Jman27]

should i write an erotic kindred fanfic now before the reveal ends up being lame

sure but if its not what will you do?

[Snoop Dogg]

sure but if its not what will you do?

hmmm i should wait cuz if i write about a character getting covered in centipedes and then it ends up being some peter x peter thing that'll be weird

[Forty20]

I feel like Kindred is trying to break Peter, make him cross some kind of moral/ethical line. The reveal I believe is the whole point of Spencer’s run so far, not really that Kindred will probably kick the crap out of Peter when they come face to face(although that will happen as well.