Thoughts on Kindred?

[NC_Yankee]

Fairly sure he's the part of Peter(and possibly MJ) tossed into hell from OMD. Knowing the way Spencer writes, where he likes to lay out heavy foreshadowing so subsequent rereads recontextualizes the story after the big reveal(Captain America: Sam Wilson was a big one with this in all the chapters prior to Stevil reveal), I think he primed the core of his initial Spidey run to be build around Kindred, with a brooding mystery of their identity in the vein of Hobgoblin or such, and has littered his run with hints of Kindred's identity. Of course I should say I don't really know what Kindred's plans are outside of making Parker suffer, which is exciting going into Last Remains, which i think will be more exciting to figure out rather than just Kindred's identity. Anywhoo:

* He's been the only other consistent narrator through Spencer's run in the main issues outside Pete, and when he takes over the boxes turn blue, or even overlap with Peter's at times
* Has the Kingpin, who's actions killed Aunt May, kneel to him.
* Kindred is able to control the Tri-Sentinel, which Parker had rewired to only obey him
* When he tells Peter his name, before he says it the next panel is MJ waking him up from his nightmare saying PETE!
* Appears clinging the wall Spidey-esque in his visit to the escaped Mysterio
* Knows Mysterio's psychiatrist persona by name, which Spiderman uncovered after Mysterio tried to discredit him
* Explicitly references One More Day when nothing Mysterio begging for one more chance.
* Won't hurt MJ, intentionally got her out of town to launch his plan
* Knows Spiderman is Peter Parker but has no desire to tell others, only cares about showing Parker's hypocrisy
* During Absolute Carnage, he tells Norman how when Peter looks at Norman, hes reminded of the happy life he couldve had that was taken away, and then adds that the same can be said for himself
* Says they died in a unique way
* not my idea, but pulled from another post- one of the opening stories Parker got split in two, was a fun lesson on responsibility and how both sides of Peter need each other. But it was also about how destructive part of him can be when his conscience is removed.
* comment from elsewhere: When OMD happened, Mephisto said that part of the deal was that even though MJ and Peter'd have their memories erased, there'd always be a part of their souls that remained in Hell, knowing what happened and suffering for eternity
* In the Sins Rising Prelude, Stanley Carter is reliving his memories as Sin-Eater while presented in a late night talk show format, which is where he was after he was released being deemed "cured" from his Sin-Eater persona. Electro, also dead and who interrupted the talk show in the original run, is seen playing drums for the talk show's band, alongside an obscured red haired singer. The host of the show, who is interviewing Carter through his memories of Sin Eater and all the people he killed, resembles Peter Parker from the era of Spectacular Spider-Man, down to the haircut, and when the illusion drops, it's been Kindred talking to Carter the entire time, the only people involved in all these instances being Carter, Electro, and Parker.
* Sin-Eater, upgraded by Kindred's powers, now has the ability to shoot ectoplasmic rounds with his shotgun, which erase the "sins" of those hit and making them new people, essentially a walking retcon machine drawing parallels to OMD erasing Parker's actions.

The problem is we already saw a story with Peter and Spider-Man separated ( a great story by the way), and although I did not read it, Superior which dealt with the same concept ( although executed differently). I doubt Spencer goes in that direction again.

[Spidey5640]

I agree that more and more clues are adding up to Gwen, but Kindred referred to her in the third person in the Absolute Carnage tie ins. "He still cries out her name in his sleep, you know," (Kindred to Norman.) This would imply tht Kindred is not Gwen.

That's a great catch!

[Spidey5640]

I'm still leaning towards Brian DeWolf with a secondary pick of Emily Lyman Osborn.

[NC_Yankee]

I'm still leaning towards Brian DeWolf with a secondary pick of Emily Lyman Osborn.

Why would Emily hate Peter? As for Brian why would be bring back the guy who killed his sister to life? There is no one Osborn included he should hate more.

[Gwen Parker]

Also, as for any female-Kindred theories, Kindred is most likely a guy. When Mysterio made that person think he was him in ASM 25, and told him who Kindred was to complete the illusion, the fake Mysterio referred to Kindred as "he" during the counseling session with the real Mysterio (who was disguised as his favorite psychiatrist character).

[Spidey5640]

Why would Emily hate Peter? As for Brian why would be bring back the guy who killed his sister to life? There is no one Osborn included he should hate more.

Emily is admittedly a long shot but does have a few things going for her , one being a long history with Osborn and we can assume Pete because he was friends with Harry. She might be one of the few people who would know Mendell Strom from his being Norman's partner. Because her past is such a blank slate it would allow Spencer alot of leeway to fill in the blanks and make her fit however he wishes. She could hate Pete because he didn't protect Harry enough from Norman, she could be protective of MJ, Felicia because she herself was an abused woman..but again she is a looooonnngggg shot.

I went into more detail on Brian in a different Kindred threat but basically I can see him hating Spidey because he may feel he didn't protect Jean from being killed. He was a cop who was targeted by an organized mob hit which might imply he was a corrupt cop, along with his father. That and the fact that his dad was also police commissioner at one time might tie into Norman and the Kingpin in the past. His mind control/mind reading powers would let him know Pete was Spidey and also insert himself into Pete's dreams. It may also explain how he got the Kingpin to kneel before him. Brian was killed by the Punisher so we know he probably spend some time in hell.

Like everyone else's theories there are weaknesses but I think he's a better bet than some version of Pete being Kindred.

[NC_Yankee]

Emily is admittedly a long shot but does have a few things going for her , one being a long history with Osborn and we can assume Pete because he was friends with Harry. She might be one of the few people who would know Mendell Strom from his being Norman's partner. Because her past is such a blank slate it would allow Spencer alot of leeway to fill in the blanks and make her fit however he wishes. She could hate Pete because he didn't protect Harry enough from Norman, she could be protective of MJ, Felicia because she herself was an abused woman..but again she is a looooonnngggg shot.

I went into more detail on Brian in a different Kindred threat but basically I can see him hating Spidey because he may feel he didn't protect Jean from being killed. He was a cop who was targeted by an organized mob hit which might imply he was a corrupt cop, along with his father. That and the fact that his dad was also police commissioner at one time might tie into Norman and the Kingpin in the past. His mind control/mind reading powers would let him know Pete was Spidey and also insert himself into Pete's dreams. It may also explain how he got the Kingpin to kneel before him. Brian was killed by the Punisher so we know he probably spend some time in hell.

Like everyone else's theories there are weaknesses but I think he's a better bet than some version of Pete being Kindred.

Compared to some of the other theories I would sooner see it be Harry. One clue that points to him is Norman being “Proud.” Harry has always been a pathetic character ( think the drug issues and Norman favoring Peter taking over for him because “Harry is weak.”) I have not figured Harry to be Kindred because he is too obvious and I doubt that Spencer would spend so much time on Kindred with an meh outcome. But it certainly has to be considered. I still go back to that cover on ASM 55 and it makes me think Peter had to have done something more painful then teaming up with Osborn, and having Gwen be Kindred and killing her would certainly qualify.

[PCN24454]

Compared to some of the other theories I would sooner see it be Harry. One clue that points to him is Norman being “Proud.” Harry has always been a pathetic character ( think the drug issues and Norman favoring Peter taking over for him because “Harry is weak.”) I have not figured Harry to be Kindred because he is too obvious and I doubt that Spencer would spend so much time on Kindred with an meh outcome. But it certainly has to be considered. I still go back to that cover on ASM 55 and it makes me think Peter had to have done something more painful then teaming up with Osborn, and having Gwen be Kindred and killing her would certainly qualify.

"Welp, it was really satisfying to have Harry finally work off his issues and find closure that he didn't get in pretty much any other run! I sure hope no writer goes and undoes that just to have another "Peter's friend turns evil" plot!"

/s

[Kingkalamari]

The problem is we already saw a story with Peter and Spider-Man separated ( a great story by the way), and although I did not read it, Superior which dealt with the same concept ( although executed differently). I doubt Spencer goes in that direction again.

The thing is this isnt just "evil peter", as a storytelling vehicle it's a walking incarnation of OMD and the clout around it, vengeful for being tossed away in the name of another chance, that Peter cant even remember and goes against his very ethos. Its definately no coincidence everyone involved in OMD is now involved with Kindred, down to Strange showing up in Last Remains. Additionally I do think Kindred is Spencer trying to leave his own lasting stamp on the Spidey mythos and won't bog it down by means of heavy retcons to justify Harry or Gwen being Kindred's identity(Harry hasn't even been considered to of died now too, outside of the fact he was at peace with Parker on his deathbed, Gwen being cool with Parker during Clone Conspiracy) but rather a character that is both uniquely his while also having a identity and origin people are shocked by, and whoever it is has been brewing in hell for years, rezzing Mysterio among other things, which, barring some sloppy retcon someone like Harry wouldn't be able to do because through that time he spent confronting and overcoming his dad in stories like American Son. With more and more we know about Kindred to, it really shrivels the list of potential people too, with imo, the only person who could care for Black Cat and MJ's safety while also hating Osborn and Parker with personal vendetta, is only Parker himself.

[PCN24454]

The thing is this isnt just "evil peter", as a storytelling vehicle it's a walking incarnation of OMD and the clout around it, vengeful for being tossed away in the name of another chance, that Peter cant even remember and goes against his very ethos. Its definately no coincidence everyone involved in OMD is now involved with Kindred, down to Strange showing up in Last Remains. Additionally I do think Kindred is Spencer trying to leave his own lasting stamp on the Spidey mythos and won't bog it down by means of heavy retcons to justify Harry or Gwen being Kindred's identity(Harry hasn't even been considered to of died now too, outside of the fact he was at peace with Parker on his deathbed, Gwen being cool with Parker during Clone Conspiracy) but rather a character that is both uniquely his while also having a identity and origin people are shocked by, and whoever it is has been brewing in hell for years, rezzing Mysterio among other things, which, barring some sloppy retcon someone like Harry wouldn't be able to do because through that time he spent confronting and overcoming his dad in stories like American Son. With more and more we know about Kindred to, it really shrivels the list of potential people too, with imo, the only person who could care for Black Cat and MJ's safety while also hating Osborn and Parker with personal vendetta, is only Parker himself.

Yeah....

People only really care about the marriage

[NC_Yankee]

The thing is this isnt just "evil peter", as a storytelling vehicle it's a walking incarnation of OMD and the clout around it, vengeful for being tossed away in the name of another chance, that Peter cant even remember and goes against his very ethos. Its definately no coincidence everyone involved in OMD is now involved with Kindred, down to Strange showing up in Last Remains. Additionally I do think Kindred is Spencer trying to leave his own lasting stamp on the Spidey mythos and won't bog it down by means of heavy retcons to justify Harry or Gwen being Kindred's identity(Harry hasn't even been considered to of died now too, outside of the fact he was at peace with Parker on his deathbed, Gwen being cool with Parker during Clone Conspiracy) but rather a character that is both uniquely his while also having a identity and origin people are shocked by, and whoever it is has been brewing in hell for years, rezzing Mysterio among other things, which, barring some sloppy retcon someone like Harry wouldn't be able to do because through that time he spent confronting and overcoming his dad in stories like American Son. With more and more we know about Kindred to, it really shrivels the list of potential people too, with imo, the only person who could care for Black Cat and MJ's safety while also hating Osborn and Parker with personal vendetta, is only Parker himself.

I could buy into that except two versions of Peter not only remind me of those two stories I mentioned but Clone Saga and Ben. I also do not think Peter “Defeating himself” has the same effect as killing Gwen, or MJ dying which are the two things the cover of ASM 55 made me think of. I also think about the Mysterio movie and the death of Captain Stacy.

[Gwen Parker]

I think an OMD thing would be cool for Kindred, except for the fact that the theory has been around for so long it wouldn't be surprising anymore. Also, another thing that turns me off from the theory is the conversation with Norman in ASM 30-31. How would Norman know about OMD Peter being Kindred, or why would he even say things like calling Kindred his "legacy" and being "proud of him." I think Kindred being OMD Peter fits a lot of the clues out there, except for the whole Norman conversation. Also, knowing Peter, would even the piece of him thrown in hell become so vengeful and murderous? I feel like Peter wouldn't become that, even in the firey afterlife. I think Kindred is a seperate person with a long brewed vendetta against Peter and Norman. Then again, Kindred saying things like he "knows Pete better than he knows himself" and even the title "Last Remains" suggest an OMD Peter, not to mention all the clues you guys have provided. I'm not going to lock and load my theory as Kindred being OMD Peter quite yet, just because of some of the variables I listed above. I feel like in this web of clues we have, there's always a clue that throws a wrench in every theory.

[fin5]

OMG its Aunt May

[Kingkalamari]

I think an OMD thing would be cool for Kindred, except for the fact that the theory has been around for so long it wouldn't be surprising anymore. Also, another thing that turns me off from the theory is the conversation with Norman in ASM 30-31. How would Norman know about OMD Peter being Kindred, or why would he even say things like calling Kindred his "legacy" and being "proud of him." I think Kindred being OMD Peter fits a lot of the clues out there, except for the whole Norman conversation. Also, knowing Peter, would even the piece of him thrown in hell become so vengeful and murderous? I feel like Peter wouldn't become that, even in the firey afterlife. I think Kindred is a seperate person with a long brewed vendetta against Peter and Norman. Then again, Kindred saying things like he "knows Pete better than he knows himself" and even the title "Last Remains" suggest an OMD Peter, not to mention all the clues you guys have provided. I'm not going to lock and load my theory as Kindred being OMD Peter quite yet, just because of some of the variables I listed above. I feel like in this web of clues we have, there's always a clue that throws a wrench in every theory.

Yeah, it's been the ongoing theory for some time, Kindred even pokes fun of the identity sleuths by adding in #45 Parker shouldn't be worried about who he is as much as what he wants to do, which even going into Last Remains were not sure what Kindred's plans are.

I agree Peter Parker as we know in the 616 would never become a murderous demon, but I think that's why Spencer's run took off with a story of Peter being split in two, to demonstrate how without his conscious present, the spidey side of him can become reckless and dangerous, and if Kindred is the manifestation of the parts of Peter removed from OMD and tossed into hell, it seems like under those conditions it would happen, and definitely seems like a intentional plot idea to use as foreshadowing.

I thought the legacy comments from Osborn were directed as Osborn's actions and the trauma he caused(as reflected in the flashbacks of those issues) culminated in a being like Kindred, and hes proud of Kindred for that reason, his reign of terror was able to conjure a being of hate like Kindred to be in the first place. As far as Norman knowing of OMD and whatnot, Red Goblin had Norman relearning Peter's identity, among other things, there's really been no clarification on what Norman remembers now.

I think the red herring reading of that interaction is he's talking about Harry, given the core relationship dynamic between Harry and Norman was the expectations Harry was thrown on him by his father, but those stories have since been addressed and overcome in Slott's run in a way that'd be awkward to revisit or retcon.

[Gwen Parker]

Speaking of Kindred's comment in ASM 44, what does Kindred want? What are his plans? Any thoughts?