Phoenix force: Universal or multiversal?

[GMikey]

Well I can explain it but it's not easy or succinct.

Well go right ahead, that's what this question is for, get answers so I can funnel as much info as possible to my fellow animator and writers. This project is going to be public, for the fans, so... we WANT to make a great Phoenix story and Cosmic X-Men saga. But... I don't want to just scrap canon and make up stuff, I want glean on the good from canon, and build on it from there

[CRaymond]

Once upon a time the universe had no dimensions. Then it had 1, 2, 3, and then time
The universe is trying to evolve into a fifth dimension because that’s what nature does: it evolves
The one constant IRL and reflected in its narratives is that the universe steps toward increasing complexity.
quantum forces congealed to form molecules which congealed into deoxyribonucleic acid helices which congealed into sentient creatures. What next?

but first, you gotta ask what’s 5D... well you can sorta imagine 5D, so that’s what 5D is: imagination, or more precisely thought itself
Sentience is a product of 4D space evolving into 5D
This is why telepaths are essential, they congeal minds and sentience...
look at scifi concepts like the phalanx, the borg. hivemind, or rather shared thought is the future
telepaths are the next step... not just in human evolution, but universal evolution

In order to help this evolution, the universe has a sort of hormone or immune system that some writers call the Phoenix Force or the Phoenix Consciousness, but I like to call it the Phoenix System.
The Phoenix System exists in order to empower its most significant "5D cells" overcome stagnation
These "5D cells" are Jean, QQ and all the others you think you see in the White Hot Room
The WHR is outside of 4D space, because it's the always-existing evolution of the universe into 5D "space"
The "Phoenix Corps" aren't from alternate timelines or alternate Earths, they're all just alien and Earthen telepaths that ascended into pure 5D space
They’re not planned beforehand in the WHR because time doesn’t exist there. omega telepaths* are a random evolution inside 4D.

An omega telepath* can access the Phoenix System to allow the telepath to do extra extra extra things:
• like Feron did to project the Excalibur Tower across all Alternate Earths to create the Energy Matrix
• like repair a wound in a multiversal aperture, like Jean did with the MKraan Crystal
• like reaching into 4D space at any point and changing a specific event to avoid stagnation, as Jean did with Here Comes Tomorrow
• like Rachel did by traveling across the multiverse to defeat her enemies in Earth 811
• like Hope did by ending the Scarlet Witch's reality warp of Earth 616's x-genes

* I hate omega denotations but it’s the easiest way to explain why some telepaths have Phoenix access and some don’t

One of your specific questions was whether the Phoenix exists in all multiverse parallel universes as a single entity or if it's "native" to 616 and each Earth has its own.
I tend to favor "native" to 616 and each Earth has its own, but that the Phoenix System(s) that exist in each universe are connected like siamese twins, only infinite

[LordAllMIghty]

It's both.

It's a multi-verse cosmic force (LIFE) that works on a universal level (host bodies) to repair or destroy.

[yogaflame]

Um... when did I ever reference film?

When you compared WPotC Jean holding a universe in her hands to the Avengers using the Quantum realm to time travel in Endgame.

[ARkadelphia]

Didn’t you just do this thread back in July?

[SerCo]

Im my headcanon all the phoenix hosts across the multiverse share this hivemind wich calls itself The Phoenix. So I would say multiversal but who knows anymore, Marvel really fucked up the phoenix mythos this past 15 year or so.

[BroHomo]

Whats the difference between an multiversal and universal entity besides one 'different' version of same person in every universe and one being found in every universe?

[ExodusCloak]

The phoenix consciousness that talks is Multiversal or at least has awareness on a multiversal level and the avatars are universal

[Wolverine12]

It was a major plot point in Hickman's Avengers that the infinity stones only work in their home dimension, making them universal but not multiversal. Phoenix force is multiversal, plenty of evidence has been shared already.

[loke13]

I mean I doubt The Dominion (who seem to be able to operate multiversaly) would be scared of the Phoenix if it wasn't too able to operate on a multiversal level.

[GMikey]

Once upon a time the universe had no dimensions. Then it had 1, 2, 3, and then time
The universe is trying to evolve into a fifth dimension because that’s what nature does: it evolves
The one constant IRL and reflected in its narratives is that the universe steps toward increasing complexity.
quantum forces congealed to form molecules which congealed into deoxyribonucleic acid helices which congealed into sentient creatures. What next?

but first, you gotta ask what’s 5D... well you can sorta imagine 5D, so that’s what 5D is: imagination, or more precisely thought itself
Sentience is a product of 4D space evolving into 5D
This is why telepaths are essential, they congeal minds and sentience...
look at scifi concepts like the phalanx, the borg. hivemind, or rather shared thought is the future
telepaths are the next step... not just in human evolution, but universal evolution

In order to help this evolution, the universe has a sort of hormone or immune system that some writers call the Phoenix Force or the Phoenix Consciousness, but I like to call it the Phoenix System.
The Phoenix System exists in order to empower its most significant "5D cells" overcome stagnation
These "5D cells" are Jean, QQ and all the others you think you see in the White Hot Room
The WHR is outside of 4D space, because it's the always-existing evolution of the universe into 5D "space"
The "Phoenix Corps" aren't from alternate timelines or alternate Earths, they're all just alien and Earthen telepaths that ascended into pure 5D space
They’re not planned beforehand in the WHR because time doesn’t exist there. omega telepaths* are a random evolution inside 4D.

An omega telepath* can access the Phoenix System to allow the telepath to do extra extra extra things:
• like Feron did to project the Excalibur Tower across all Alternate Earths to create the Energy Matrix
• like repair a wound in a multiversal aperture, like Jean did with the MKraan Crystal
• like reaching into 4D space at any point and changing a specific event to avoid stagnation, as Jean did with Here Comes Tomorrow
• like Rachel did by traveling across the multiverse to defeat her enemies in Earth 811
• like Hope did by ending the Scarlet Witch's reality warp of Earth 616's x-genes

* I hate omega denotations but it’s the easiest way to explain why some telepaths have Phoenix access and some don’t

One of your specific questions was whether the Phoenix exists in all multiverse parallel universes as a single entity or if it's "native" to 616 and each Earth has its own.
I tend to favor "native" to 616 and each Earth has its own, but that the Phoenix System(s) that exist in each universe are connected like siamese twins, only infinite

Oooookay lol I'll come back to this ^_^||

[GMikey]

It's both.

It's a multi-verse cosmic force (LIFE) that works on a universal level (host bodies) to repair or destroy.

What I've been recently told is that the Phoenix exists through out the multiverse, but exists as its own versions per universe... so...

[GMikey]

When you compared WPotC Jean holding a universe in her hands to the Avengers using the Quantum realm to time travel in Endgame.

Well I wasn't the one to make the comparison per'se, it was a colleague. Second, we've had this argument before in our chats and forums, stating film and comic media shouldn't mix. But... it's been decided that, the MCU lore counts in comparison with comics, since Marvel is directly responsible for the MCU, AND the comics are as inconsistent as the MCU films. Thus... in this argument, comparing the MCU Avengers' actions with White Phoenix, is considered a valid argument. Something else would have to suffice...

[GMikey]

Didn’t you just do this thread back in July?

No... I have discussed the Phoenix before, but not whether or not it is universal or multiversal, has never been discussed by me... not here at least.

I just want answers so... these new writers don't reconstruct in a way that is not... consistent with comic canon. I mean, at this point, I feel like giving up. There's been overwhelming evidence in the chats where many, many comic fans came with "evidence" of why the Phoenix is technically a "universal" entity. Its difficult getting good help, cuz... arguments for it being multiversal has been "debunked" and... I'm simply trying to find hard, solid evidence and feat of it being multiversal... however... I haven't...

[Lapsus]

Beyond TOAA, Living Tribunal, Eternity, Infinity, Death and Oblivion you are going to find a few examples of clear evidence of Multiversal "beings", most of the times authors are going to have conflict arguments about the matter and fans will use their own headcanon to fill the holes based on their own preferences.

I know that my post is basically a "no answer" but i dont think that you can come to a solid conclusion.