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  1. #121
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    I’ve never understood Kent Shakespeare.

    Is he suppose to be a Superman descendant?

    Why the civilian name Kent Shakespeare?

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    I’ve never understood Kent Shakespeare.

    Is he suppose to be a Superman descendant?

    Why the civilian name Kent Shakespeare?
    Too many unnecessary and underdeveloped new characters at the expense of classic Legion members. Yeah, I never knew the purpose of him either.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will Evans View Post
    I’ve never understood Kent Shakespeare.

    Is he suppose to be a Superman descendant?

    Why the civilian name Kent Shakespeare?
    In later revision, other writers had connected him to the Superman linage, but I think than originally, he was somekind of replacement character for Superboy (think the flying brick superpowers, the glasses, the "Kent" name) same as Laurel Gand was for Supergirl.
    "Words change our spirits, but we also change the spirit of the words "

  4. #124
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    A recent issue of the magazine 'Back Issue' discussed this era in length. Here's what it says of Kent Shakespeare.

    Al Gordon, the inker for most of this run, created both Celeste Rockfish and Kent Shakespeare.

    Kent was a former Legionnaire named 'Impulse' who joined during the 5-year gap. He was linked to Superman before the editorial edict not to use Kryptonian (Superman) characters. Mark Waid stated 'We'd had Kent approved by the Superman guys, under the bizarre condition that he was a descendant not of Clark Kent's, but of Jimmy Olsen's.

    Doesn't really matter. Put lipstick on a pig -- it's still a pig.

    A lot of the fan favorite characters missing from this era were not liked by Giffen, so they didn't appear. He hated Dawnstar, but approved her inclusion being that she was pretty much living a torture existence being possessed by the Bounty entity. Giffen certainly made good contributions to the Legion, but he could also be an idiot. I don't think he liked the Legion as a team of superheroes. Though his more sci-fi approach was indeed interesting, it lost a lot of Legion fans.
    Last edited by kcekada; 11-26-2020 at 03:52 PM.

  5. #125

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    Run the thread back a bit, to say you did a great review on the Sun Boy issue, a legionairre classic.

    I was always a Wildfire guy, but you couldn't help but feel for him, it kind of reminds me off Theon Greyjoy.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcekada View Post
    A lot of the fan favorite characters missing from this era were not liked by Giffen, so they didn't appear. He hated Dawnstar, but approved her inclusion being that she was pretty much living a torture existence being possessed by the Bounty entity.
    Well, that explains a lot. Not the best politic in bussines, but it was his choice.

    Giffen certainly made good contributions to the Legion, but he could also be an idiot. I don't think he liked the Legion as a team of superheroes. Though his more sci-fi approach was indeed interesting, it lost a lot of Legion fans.
    Totally agree with you on that point. This was a good sci-fi approach and story but it was a break appart from the spirit of the Legion. I would add than it followed the grim and gritty era from those times, with the bleak and dark apocalyptic futures. It was the Dark Knight Returns for the Legion, but not as an imaginary story or an alternate future but as in continuity story. But even under those circunstances, a return to a more classic Legion, without any of the 6sw-Batch bussiness, was possible, without the need of any reboot. And I say that as a fan who really liked the Zero Hour Legion.
    "Words change our spirits, but we also change the spirit of the words "

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Legion of Super Bloggers review of issue #31 - Shvaughn Erin reveals a shocking secret about herself to Jan Arrah (Element Lad). Lar Gand comes face-to-face with his younger version. Plus, now that the Empress is dead, who is controlling the Emerald Eye?

    http://legionofsuperbloggers.blogspo...heroes-31.html

    Any thoughts / opinions on Shvaughn is really Sean?

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Any thoughts / opinions on Shvaughn is really Sean?
    I wasn't a part of organized Legion fandom back then (still not, my experience with a Facebook LSH group left me convinced organized LSH fandom is nuts), so I was completely unaware of any theories about Element Lad's sexuality. I started reading LSH regularly with the Great Darkness Saga (and I was about 10 or 11), so the Levitz era pretty much spanned my elementary, junior high, and senior high years. It also means I watched the Jan/Shvaughn relationship from the beginning, and had no problem with it. So the whole deal with "Shvaughn is really Sean and that entire relationship was a gay relationship all along, it's just that you, Element Lad, and Paul Levitz didn't actually know it" thing just came out of the blue for me. Especially since they didn't build it up or lead up into it....well, at all, really. The entire thing was done in one issue, IIRC. From what the creative team has said in interviews, Giffen and the Bierbaums initially wanted to kill off Shvaughn by Roxxas in issue 3, particularly to get rid of her relationship with Jan and clear the way to 'out' Element Lad. It was Al Gordon who disagreed with killing her off, and after the others challenged him to justify keeping her alive, he brainstormed the idea that "she's really a he" as a spur of the moment thing. The others were intrigued, especially since they were hellbent on making Jan gay. And that, combined with the Bierbaums' view of Blok being a likeable but ultimately unremarkable Legionnaire, is how Shvaughn was spared but Blok was killed off in issue 3 instead. (They were determined that Roxxas was going to kill someone.

    Honestly, I think they could have done a better job setting it up. I'm wondering if the whole thing (gay male taking a drug to physically transform into a female just to get close to a male they're crushing on, then keeping mum on the whole thing after they get involved and for years, to boot) wouldn't be seen as "problematic" today. Plus, this kind of retcon/reveal essentially destroys a character as intended by its creator (I believe Levitz created Shvaughn during his first, late-70's run on Suberboy & the LSH, was it Earthwar?, and he certainly didn't intend for her to be a drug-induced sex-changed male-to-female) while trying to attach said character's history onto what is, essentially, a brand-new character. Then again, it was roughly 30 years ago, and even the best-intentioned allies' understanding of LGTBQ issues wasn't as good as they might be today.
    Last edited by Timber Wolf-By-Night; 11-29-2020 at 11:26 AM.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thor-Ul View Post
    Well, that explains a lot. Not the best politic in bussines, but it was his choice.
    Mark Waid was the same way when he wrote the Legion. Both times he just used the silver age characters and no one created after that. No Timber Wolf, Wildfire, Blok, Dawnstar, Tyroc, Tellus, Quislet, or anyone. It was one of the big reason this issue of his Threeboot pissed so many fans off because it was like he was just teasing the fans saying "I know you like these characters and want them back, but I hate them so haha". It was him sticking it to long time fans that had not been liking his horrrible Threeboot because the whole issue was just a big fake out with none of the characters actually being introduced.

    Last edited by Zero Hunter; 12-02-2020 at 02:03 PM.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    Mark Waid was the same way when he wrote the Legion. Both times he just used the silver age characters and no one created after that. No Timber Wolf, Wildfire, Blok, Dawnstar, Tyroc, Tellus, Quislet, or anyone. It was one of the big reason this issue of his Threeboot pissed so many fans off because it was like he was just teasing the fans saying "I know you like these characters and want them back, but I hate them so haha". It was him sticking it to long time fans that had not been liking his horrible Threeboot because the whole issue was just a big fake out with none of the characters actually being introduced.
    I wouldn't have minded so much if he'd introduced more of his own characters, as the Reboot did with Kid Quantum 2, Kinetix, Dragonmage, GEAR, etc. I was really more interested in learning more about Theena, Gazelle, Dream Boy, Sizzle and Turtle than a *third* version of Brainiac 5, Saturn Girl or Ultra Boy.

    I was already tired of new versions of the first 20 or so Legionnaires, and would love a 'Legion of One World' that consisted entirely of Legionnaires that don't have three or more iterations between the classic, reboot, threeboot and bendisboot continuities. A team with single-continuity folk like Tyroc and Tellus, Kid Quantum II and Dragonmage, Gazelle and Dream Boy, Dragonwing and Glorith, Monster Boy, Myg/Karate Kid II, Devlin O'Ryan/Reflex, etc.

  11. #131
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    Legion of Super Bloggers review of issue #32 - As the Dominators' plans begin to collapse, Cham leaves to search for his father, RJ Brande, while the SW6 Legionnaires lose three of their teammates in battle.

    http://legionofsuperbloggers.blogspo...heroes-32.html


  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I wouldn't have minded so much if he'd introduced more of his own characters, as the Reboot did with Kid Quantum 2, Kinetix, Dragonmage, GEAR, etc. I was really more interested in learning more about Theena, Gazelle, Dream Boy, Sizzle and Turtle than a *third* version of Brainiac 5, Saturn Girl or Ultra Boy.

    I was already tired of new versions of the first 20 or so Legionnaires, and would love a 'Legion of One World' that consisted entirely of Legionnaires that don't have three or more iterations between the classic, reboot, threeboot and bendisboot continuities. A team with single-continuity folk like Tyroc and Tellus, Kid Quantum II and Dragonmage, Gazelle and Dream Boy, Dragonwing and Glorith, Monster Boy, Myg/Karate Kid II, Devlin O'Ryan/Reflex, etc.
    You know, when I read the JLU infinitus saga, and saw all the mixed Legion Team, I thought than Jeff Lemire was planning to do a Legion with all the characers from the different eras into one. That could had been interesting. But alas, that was not that way.

    Also, don't have anyone else the feeling than Bendis is fan of the 5YL era?
    "Words change our spirits, but we also change the spirit of the words "

  13. #133
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    Legion of Super Bloggers review of issue #33 - Who was Kid Quantum, what happened to him, and how did he fit in to the new timeline as a member of the Legion?

    http://legionofsuperbloggers.blogspo...heroes-33.html


  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by caj View Post
    Any thoughts / opinions on Shvaughn is really Sean?
    If I added some transgender rep to the Legion, I would have pissed everyone off and made Ayla transgender instead.

    Every pair of Winathian twins we'd seen to that point had been identical (same-sex) twins.

    Winathian twins tend to be inseparable. They get the same job. They marry another twin-pair. They *do not* randomly leave Winath without their twin, join an organization, marry a Titanian and basically go *years* without mentioning, 'oh, yeah, I have a sister, whom I never mentioned, because I apparently couldn't get away from her fast enough...'

    When we first meet Ayla, she looks similar enough to Garth that she manages to fool his best friends into thinking she's Garth for some time.

    All of these things have meta reasons. Ayla (and the Winathian twin-thing) didn't exist when 'Lightning Boy' joined the Legion. Artists never really considered that they'd generally shown only same-sex twins for other Winathians. Golden age hijinks that allow someone's 'secret identity' to be 'he's wearing glasses now!' or Jimmy Olsen to spend so much time disguised as a woman would also excuse the other Legionnaires falling for Ayla's impersonation of Garth.

    But it's also fun to make the subtext, text. Ayla transitioning from a boy to a girl, and Garth not handling it well, could explain his rush to get off Winath and never speak of her to his friends, and her ability to so smoothly impersonate him (perhaps not being fully transitioned yet?), and why she and Garth are opposite-sex and yet still 'identical' twins.

    And for funsies, Timber Wolf would have found out about it fairly early on, and not cared a bit, because he's not her twin and doesn't see her transitioning as distancing herself from him the way Garth did.

    Thankfully, I never got to write the Legion, 'cause I'm sure that would have been way more of a tempest than Sean/Shvaugn!

  15. #135
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    That could had been interesting. But Isuppose you are proposing it this development of Ayla instead her relationship with Vi. Because if she had a relationship with Vi and thene she was revealed a transgender... No, wait, that could be interesting to see.
    "Words change our spirits, but we also change the spirit of the words "

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