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  1. #31
    Amazing Member Jcady59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    Oh God. I never even considered that. Jotaro is basically Japanese Batman lol.
    Yep it gets even more Apparent as the series goes on but I won’t go into it to avoid spoilers.

  2. #32
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    What is a shonen? A quick google just seems like a cartoon. Not familiar with the archetype
    Anime aimed at boys. Think Pokemon, Shaman King, Digimon, Hunter x Hunter, Fire Force, stuff like that.

  3. #33
    Mighty Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    What is a shonen? A quick google just seems like a cartoon. Not familiar with the archetype
    Shonen/Shounen/Whatever is basically a genre of manga/anime that's gear towards young and teenaged boys. Stuff like Dragonball, Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, etc. It's basically the Japanese equivalent to Superhero comics in the West.

  4. #34
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Well yeah, but what does it mean then to say about creating a shonen character for Batman? Or describing other characters as shonen?
    It's the Dynamic Duo! Batman and Robin!... and Red Robin and Red Hood and Nightwing and Batwoman and Batgirl and Orphan and Spoiler and Bluebird and Lark and Gotham Girl and Talon and Batwing and Huntress and Azreal and Flamebird and Batcow?

    Since when could just anybody do what we trained to do? It makes it all dumb instead of special. Like it doesn't matter anymore.
    -Dick Grayson (Batman Inc.)


  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    I guess Kenshiro from First of the North Star is probably the closest to Bruce as a shounen protagonist? There aren't many that are dark, distant, and have this steadfast desire to fulfill some question/mission. Dick, Tim, Clark and the like usually fill that position more with being more personable, honest, and good-natured despite having tragic pasts. Although I guess Tim doesn't really have a tragic past. Jason would probably fill that delinquent archetype that has kind of fallen out of favor the last decade or so. Damian I am not really sure what he would fall under. He's more of the best at everything but with a bad personality rival that faces off against the shounen main character, lol.

  6. #36
    Mighty Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pohzee View Post
    Well yeah, but what does it mean then to say about creating a shonen character for Batman? Or describing other characters as shonen?
    Long story short: A lot of shounen series feature a very common cliche where the main character has a rival to play off of. Not really an enemy. Not really a friend (until about halfway through the series when suddenly they are). But someone that serves as a constant foil to the main character and, in some cases, competes against in some way, shape, or form. That's your standard shounen rival character. For someone like Batman, the closest he has to one of those is Superman. Someone who shares the same goal as him and would be considered his best friend. But the way they go about achieving those goals make them polar opposites and make them foils to each other.

    There are some variations of the trope, where the rivals are a lot more antagonistic towards each other (which I think is what Tynion is trying to go for) but for the most part, Batman and Superman are shounen rivals, almost to a T.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badou View Post
    I guess Kenshiro from First of the North Star is probably the closest to Bruce as a shounen protagonist? There aren't many that are dark, distant, and have this steadfast desire to fulfill some question/mission. Dick, Tim, Clark and the like usually fill that position more with being more personable, honest, and good-natured despite having tragic pasts. Although I guess Tim doesn't really have a tragic past. Jason would probably fill that delinquent archetype that has kind of fallen out of favor the last decade or so. Damian I am not really sure what he would fall under. He's more of the best at everything but with a bad personality rival that faces off against the shounen main character, lol.
    Kenshiro would be Wolverine as a shounen protagonist.

    Dick would be a classic shounen hero or battle harem protagonist if a writer plays into his ladies man tendency.

    Jason could fall under the delinquent, rival or villain/ antihero seeking redemption depending on how he's written.

    Tim would be the only sane man or smart guy who supports the MC.

    Damian would be the jerk rival who may or may not be the final boss of the series.

  8. #38
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    I'm in the Superman is Batmans rival. If they were to see themselves like that that is. It'll come down to how it's written. Is he a rival in the sense that he's also a hero or is he a guy who thinks he's a rival kills the bad guy and is ultimately forgettable.

  9. #39
    Astonishing Member Badou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Kenshiro would be Wolverine as a shounen protagonist.

    Dick would be a classic shounen hero or battle harem protagonist if a writer plays into his ladies man tendency.

    Jason could fall under the delinquent, rival or villain/ antihero seeking redemption depending on how he's written.

    Tim would be the only sane man or smart guy who supports the MC.

    Damian would be the jerk rival who may or may not be the final boss of the series.
    I feel like Kenshiro is way too reserved to be like Wolverine. Wolverine is really brash and kind of an asshole even if both are dark/tragic characters.

  10. #40
    Fantastic Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I've come to accept that most romances in anime, manga, comics and cartoons are doomed to be poorly handled. All things considered, I thought that NaruHina was handled well considering the genre. The less we say about Sasuke and Sakura's relationship, the better. For all the things the Boruto anime has done right(worldbuilding, developing the supporting cast, establishing concepts that become relevant in the manga), its failed to sell me( or anyone else) on Sakura and Sasuke's 'marriage'. Every other couple that was established in Naruto feels like husband and wife, even the random ones like Choji/Karui and Sai/Ino, yet Sakura and Sasuke's dynamic is so awkward.

    The only well written relationship in Naruto was Temari and Shikamaru imo. People complain about Sasuke and Sakura's relationship but NaruHina was developed badly too.

    Some anime like Bleach, Baccano and Full Metal Alchemist handle romance well.
    OP characters make me itch

  11. #41
    Fantastic Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    Kenshiro would be Wolverine as a shounen protagonist.

    Dick would be a classic shounen hero or battle harem protagonist if a writer plays into his ladies man tendency.

    Jason could fall under the delinquent, rival or villain/ antihero seeking redemption depending on how he's written.

    Tim would be the only sane man or smart guy who supports the MC.

    Damian would be the jerk rival who may or may not be the final boss of the series.
    Would Giorno from Jojo be the closest MC to Bruce? He's slightly anti-social and more pragmatic.
    OP characters make me itch

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by OopsIdiditagain View Post
    Would Giorno from Jojo be the closest MC to Bruce? He's slightly anti-social and more pragmatic.
    I'd argue that Joseph in his prime was the closest MC to Bruce when it came to anticipating and outwitting opponents. The only Jojos who I thought were anti- social(still at the start of part 6 ) are Jotaro(though he's mellowed out by Diamond is Unbreakable) and Jolene. Giorno struck me as more eccentric than anti-social.

    Giorno is a weird character, people complain that he's the least interesting Jojo MC and had a bland personality(I sort of agree), but his outlook/philosophy made him compelling. We never really got much insight into how Giorno's mind worked because he was always reacting to whatever crazy stuff happened around him, but the few glimpses of his morality/philosophy we got were extremely interesting. If Golden Wind had more introspective moments for Giorno, more fans might've had a better impression of his character.

    The real question is which comic book character is closest to Giorno personality wise.

  13. #43
    Fantastic Member OopsIdiditagain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king81992 View Post
    I'd argue that Joseph in his prime was the closest MC to Bruce when it came to anticipating and outwitting opponents. The only Jojos who I thought were anti- social(still at the start of part 6 ) are Jotaro(though he's mellowed out by Diamond is Unbreakable) and Jolene. Giorno struck me as more eccentric than anti-social.

    Giorno is a weird character, people complain that he's the least interesting Jojo MC and had a bland personality(I sort of agree), but his outlook/philosophy made him compelling. We never really got much insight into how Giorno's mind worked because he was always reacting to whatever crazy stuff happened around him, but the few glimpses of his morality/philosophy we got were extremely interesting. If Golden Wind had more introspective moments for Giorno, more fans might've had a better impression of his character.

    The real question is which comic book character is closest to Giorno personality wise.

    Maybe Dr Doom.
    OP characters make me itch

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vakanai View Post
    Anime aimed at boys. Think Pokemon, Shaman King, Digimon, Hunter x Hunter, Fire Force, stuff like that.
    The main Pokemon Anime is Kodomo(muke), not Shonen. It borrows a number of Shonen storytelling elements, some Seasons and Series more heavily than others, but it is still Kodomo.

    I'll also add that Shonen is more than just Anime aimed at boys. It's its own narrative genre with storytelling beats and conventions that have broad appeal across many demographics, both including and beyond adolescent and teenaged males. Shonen storytelling is a big deal -- be it Anime, Manga, Light Novel, or whathaveyou -- and for good reasons.
    Last edited by J. D. Guy; 09-13-2020 at 01:46 AM.

  15. #45
    A Wearied Madness Vakanai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. D. Guy View Post
    The main Pokemon Anime is Kodomo(muke), not Shonen. It borrows a number of Shonen storytelling elements, some Seasons and Series more heavily than others, but it is still Kodomo.

    I'll also add that Shonen is more than just Anime aimed at boys. It's its own narrative genre with storytelling beats and conventions that have broad appeal across many demographics, both including and beyond adolescent and teenaged males. Shonen storytelling is a big deal -- be it Anime, Manga, Light Novel, or whathaveyou -- and for good reasons.
    I just went with how shounen and shoujo have been described online in articles I've seen over the years, never did an in depth search.

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