Thoughts on new Shonen Rival inspired Character?

[Frontier]

I mean, conceptually I can kind of understand the appeal of having a new, prominent, vigilante operating in Gotham who acts completely differently to Batman and company and seeing how that works.

[king81992]

Most rivals are/were bros. Sasuke and Naruto started out as bros. Vegeta and Goku are bros.

Which character/franchise would you add a shonen storyline to? I feel like either Damian, Jason Todd or Cass would fit the shonen genre well.

Outside of the batfamily, Blue Beetle, Sideways or Naomi.

Sasuke and Naruto felt like Kishi wanted them to be bros and there were times in early part 1 where they felt like bros, but their bond never really felt authentic to me. Now, in the Boruto anime, Sasuke and Naruto legitimately do feel like friends.

People criticize DBS for a lot of things, but it sold me on Goku and Vegeta's friendship for the first time. It also helped that Vegeta was much less of an ass.

Teen Titans, Young Justice, Outsiders(especially if there was a run where the focus was on some of the OG Outsiders younger relatives) and Superman would make great shonen stories.

[Vakanai]

My first thought reading the comments - if people say a concept can't work, then it's darn worth exploring.

[Blue22]

Sasuke and Naruto felt like Kishi wanted them to be bros and there were times in early part 1 where they felt like bros, but their bond never really felt authentic to me. Now, in the Boruto anime, Sasuke and Naruto legitimately do feel like friends.

Okay good. As much as people like to glorify their relationship, I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought those two were not even close to being friends until Boruto lol.

Same goes for the belief that we ever saw any genuine love between Sakura and Sasuke. That **** wasn't love. She was a school girl with a crush and he was an ******* who barely acknowledged her existence and tried to kill her on three separate occasions! Naruto's real best friend is Shikamaru. Sakura's true love is...well....nobody. Cuz she's too busy spending the entire series chasing a fantasy! Friggin NaruHina was handled better and that was awful too![/rant]

My first thought reading the comments - if people say a concept can't work, then it's darn worth exploring.

I mean...it could work...because it's kinda already been done. At least the way it's being described has already been done.

[king81992]

I mean....his design is cool. But doesn't this all feel kinda...done before? Isn't this what Superman kind of is already? He's the Ichigo to his Uryu. The Naruto to his Sasuke (well...post-series Sasuke, anyway). The Deku to his Bakugou. Hell their kids even keep it going by essentially being Gon and Killua.

Bruce already represents the darker side of being a hero. Any shounen foil to him would either be his opposite (Superman) or someone who's even darker (Red Hood, Bane, and Deathstroke). If the latter's where they're going then doesn't he stop being a rival and just becomes another villain?



Er...Those are all three TOTALLY different relationships. And I'd only call one a straight up rivalry. So I'm even more confused about what the goal is for this guy.



One could argue that they're friendly rivals when it comes to their nen training. Especially in the Greed Island arc.

You're absolutely right. It feels like Tynion is trying to apply a concept without fully understanding what it means.

Bruce has more in common with Zuko than Aang.

Gary and Ash's rivalry was unusual, it's more a product of memes and fan bias than the anime's actual reality. Ash saw Gary as someone he had to overcome and Gary never took Ash seriously until their last battle, but looking back on things,Ash was ALWAYS the better trainer than Gary. Gary's only real advantage was stronger Pokemon, he was basically the dude with great potential who never lived up to the hype.

Harry and Draco was a legitimate rivalry.

[Blue22]

You're absolutely right. It feels like Tynion is trying to apply a concept without fully understanding what it means.

Bruce has more in common with Zuko than Aang.

Gary and Ash's rivalry was unusual, it's more a product of memes and fan bias than the anime's actual reality. Ash saw Gary as someone he had to overcome and Gary never took Ash seriously until their last battle, but looking back on things,Ash was ALWAYS the better trainer than Gary. Gary's only real advantage was stronger Pokemon, he was basically the dude with great potential who never lived up to the hype.

Harry and Draco was a legitimate rivalry.

See it's funny you should say that because I was willing to call Ash and Gary a rivalry even if it was more one sided. But in Harry and Draco's case, they were less rivals and more just...straight up enemies.

When I think of a rivalry, I think of two people who genuinely compete against each other and actually care about who's better. But the only time those two are really rivals is when their quidditch teams are playing against each other. And even then, that's a rivalry that's only an extension of their hatred for each other. Aside from that, neither really cares about being better or proving that they're better. Because they already think they're better.

Draco's goal isn't to compete with Harry or prove he's better than him. It's to make Harry's life a living hell because he's a bully and that's just what he does. Harry's goal isn't to compete against Draco or prove he's better than him. He wants nothing to do with Draco. Their relationship is built upon straight up dislike more than it is any competitiveness between the two. Even when they stop being enemies, Rowling's already said the two don't really want anything to do with each other.

The closest Harry's had to a genuine rival was Cedric. And possibly the other Triwizard Champions too. But mostly Cedric. Their whole relationship was based upon rivalry. Whether it was in quidditch, the tournament, or for Cho's affection (even though they were both honestly way too good for her)

[king81992]

Okay good. As much as people like to glorify their relationship, I was beginning to think I was the only one who thought those two were not even close to being friends until Boruto lol.

Same goes for the belief that we ever saw any genuine love between Sakura and Sasuke. That **** wasn't love. She was a school girl with a crush and he was an ******* who barely acknowledged her existence and tried to kill her on three separate occasions! Naruto's real best friend is Shikamaru. Sakura's true love is...well....nobody. Cuz she's too busy spending the entire series chasing a fantasy! Friggin NaruHina was handled better and that was awful too![/rant]



I mean...it could work...because it's kinda already been done. At least the way it's being described has already been done.

I've come to accept that most romances in anime, manga, comics and cartoons are doomed to be poorly handled. All things considered, I thought that NaruHina was handled well considering the genre. The less we say about Sasuke and Sakura's relationship, the better. For all the things the Boruto anime has done right(worldbuilding, developing the supporting cast, establishing concepts that become relevant in the manga), its failed to sell me( or anyone else) on Sakura and Sasuke's 'marriage'. Every other couple that was established in Naruto feels like husband and wife, even the random ones like Choji/Karui and Sai/Ino, yet Sakura and Sasuke's dynamic is so awkward.

[Mutant God]

You're absolutely right. It feels like Tynion is trying to apply a concept without fully understanding what it means.

Bruce has more in common with Zuko than Aang.

Yeah I guess you could compare The Last Airbender to Batman vs Superman with the prince trying to capture/kill the chosen one lol

[Blue22]

Yeah I guess you could compare The Last Airbender to Batman vs Superman with the prince trying to capture/kill the chosen one lol

Yeah but in the case of that train wreck, masquerading as a movie, I can't tell who's the villainous prince and who's the "Chosen One" lol

[Jcady59]

Right now I'm more into the new characters of Tynion's run than the old faces. If there is a Clownhunter or Ghostmaker solo I'd buy it till it gets canceled at issue 8.

I disagree with his analogy because Bruce is Zuko not Aang. Pattinson's take reminds me more of Kurapika from Hunter x Hunter. I think the only other shonen protagonist he'd remind me of Is Ichigo from BLEACH!.


So giving him a darker more cerebral rival feels weird or wrong to me. There is a reason why he fights an evil clown guys.

He needs someone like Zaheer from Legend of Korra. So making GhostMaker someone with charisma and a spiritual side would be for the best.

Jotaro Kujo from Jojo’s Bizarre adventure is very Bruce esque especially post Stardust Crusaders Jotaro, I couldn’t help feeling that he came off like Batman during Diamond is un breakable.

[king81992]

See it's funny you should say that because I was willing to call Ash and Gary a rivalry even if it was more one sided. But in Harry and Draco's case, they were less rivals and more just...straight up enemies.

When I think of a rivalry, I think of two people who genuinely compete against each other and actually care about who's better. But the only time those two are really rivals is when their quidditch teams are playing against each other. And even then, that's a rivalry that's only an extension of their hatred for each other. Aside from that, neither really cares about being better or proving that they're better. Because they already think they're better.

Draco's goal isn't to compete with Harry or prove he's better than him. It's to make Harry's life a living hell because he's a bully and that's just what he does. Harry's goal isn't to compete against Draco or prove he's better than him. He wants nothing to do with Draco. Their relationship is built upon straight up dislike more than it is any competitiveness between the two. Even when they stop being enemies, Rowling's already said the two don't really want anything to do with each other.

The closest Harry's had to a genuine rival was Cedric. And possibly the other Triwizard Champions too. But mostly Cedric. Their whole relationship was based upon rivalry. Whether it was in quidditch, the tournament, or for Cho's affection (even though they were both honestly way too good for her)

This is probably one of the better explanations I've seen of Harry and Draco's feud.

Cedric and Harry was similar to Ash and Gary, the only difference was that Cedric wasn't a jerk, lived up to the hype and was a better wizard than Harry at the time.

[king81992]

Yeah I guess you could compare The Last Airbender to Batman vs Superman with the prince trying to capture/kill the chosen one lol

Even in the comics, Bruce is similar to Zuko: means well(most of the time) and makes bad decisions, Iroh and Alfred were elderly men who gave good advice to their ward( heck, they even share a fondness of tea) and got the crap beaten out of them by their crazy fathers.

The biggest difference between Bruce and Zuko is that Zuko has powers and Azula. Someone once told me that Bruce's Azula equivalent is Joker, but I strongly disagree.

[lemonpeace]

Bruce doesn't suit Shonen? uhmmmm are we reading the same character? Batman is the perfect franchise for Shonen shenanigans, I mean he's spawned at least 4 different anime protagonist (5 if you squint reeeeeal hard at Dick). However, I don't think the Shonen rivalry trope works as well for Bruce's character at this point in his career; at least it feels a bit jarring with a newly created character. I think if they wanted to go that route it would've worked more organically if it were Hush or something. in the otherhand, I'm always a proponent for new characters, so we'll see. it's an interesting concept to explore but I would've preferred if it were used for one of the other batfam members tbh. y'all already know my choice: give it to Duke baby! make him the anime bat-character, he already has the Sharingan

[Blue22]

Jotaro Kujo from Jojo’s Bizarre adventure is very Bruce esque especially post Stardust Crusaders Jotaro, I couldn’t help feeling that he came off like Batman during Diamond is un breakable.

Oh God. I never even considered that. Jotaro is basically Japanese Batman lol.

[Pohzee]

What is a shonen? A quick google just seems like a cartoon. Not familiar with the archetype