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  1. #46
    Uncanny Member XPac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    We are discussing comics here and not the MCU. The success of the MCU hasn't translated to the comics versions of The Avengers and for that matter Iron Man, Thor, Captain America.

    And success is not forever. The Avengers are big now because of the MCU but there's no guarantee they'll always be big. Superman was big after the Reeve movie, now he's still big but he's been diminished with his most recent films not selling as well as Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Shazam and so on.



    The biggest Marvel event of the last decade -- Secret Wars 2015 happens to have the FF at the center.
    It was Doom centric ... Reed was just lucky enough to be Dooms arch nemesis.

  2. #47
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitou D. Kid View Post
    The Fantastic Four get more respect but it's mostly due to the Avengers having more than 4 members and not all of them having a great public image. If we compare only Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and Captain Marvel to the FF, the comparison is more even. I'd say those 4 edge out the FF in terms of respect. They are more than just respected, they are looked at as icons that embody something (to paraphrase Norman from Dark Reign when he was looking for a Captain America and Iron Man replacement). The FF on the other hand are more like very popular celebrities.

    Thor's iffy. He's a gigantic beefcake that the women all swoon over and he saves the world often... but he also proclaims himself a legitimate god and the average citizen is REALLY iffy about that. At best he's a liar and at worst he's insane. That was one thing that they did pretty well in the Ultimates book. But yeah, between 'false gods', supervillains, and outright terrorists... The Avengers reputation comes and goes.




    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    She-Hulk, Wolverine, Hulk, Ghost-Rider, Spider-Man have all been members of the Fantastic Four and the Future Foundation. That's just a few:

    here's the full roster
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...c_Four_members

    Luke Cage, Ms. Marvel, Scott Lang/Ant-Man, Storm/Ororo Munroe, Black Panther have also been members.
    Meh... not really. A lot of those never even wore a costume and were only there for 3 issues tops. Wolverine, Hulk, Ghost Rider, weren't even sanctioned or atttached to the FF. They just got called that as a marketing ploy. If you don't wear the '4' you don't count. Most of the public wouldn't even have known about them.


    She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel/she-thing count. Probably Blank Panther and Storm... but the rest? They were little more than a guest star for an issue or two.

  3. #48
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Reed saw them as members and had them in the "all members" story. Plus the new ff was in more then one story. Why do you need to wear a 4 outfit? Luke cage didn't. Thing girl didn't. Ant-man didn't. thundra didn't. Herbie didn't. Heck the thing didn't have a 4 outfit for a long time!

    Did storm and black panther wear a 4 outfit? I can't remember.

    If they showed up in that "all members" story they are members as reed saw them as members.

  4. #49
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
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    Spider-Man and Scott Lang wore the numbers.
    "Cable was right!"

  5. #50
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Spidey didn't at first and as for ant-man-

    I don't see a 4 on that outfit! He didn't have one at first.

    [IMG][/IMG]

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    Thor's iffy. He's a gigantic beefcake that the women all swoon over and he saves the world often... but he also proclaims himself a legitimate god and the average citizen is REALLY iffy about that. At best he's a liar and at worst he's insane. That was one thing that they did pretty well in the Ultimates book. But yeah, between 'false gods', supervillains, and outright terrorists... The Avengers reputation comes and goes.






    Meh... not really. A lot of those never even wore a costume and were only there for 3 issues tops. Wolverine, Hulk, Ghost Rider, weren't even sanctioned or atttached to the FF. They just got called that as a marketing ploy. If you don't wear the '4' you don't count. Most of the public wouldn't even have known about them.


    She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel/she-thing count. Probably Blank Panther and Storm... but the rest? They were little more than a guest star for an issue or two.
    I agree. Just because they're not wearing a "4" on their costume doesn't mean they're not members. It's all about the idea of the Fantastic Four family and members. "Nuff said"!

  7. #52
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reed View Post
    I agree. Just because they're not wearing a "4" on their costume doesn't mean they're not members. It's all about the idea of the Fantastic Four family and members. "Nuff said"!
    Which is kind of my point. Most of them were never 'family'. Ghost Rider, Hulk? Never Family. Luke Cage? Never Family. He was 'hired' for 2 issues to pick up the slack till Reed could get Ben a 'Thing Suit' and the moment Ben had some strength again, Luke was out the door.

    She-hulk, She-thing... absolutely. Spider-man and Black Panther... sure, They're 'family' with decades long ties.... Storms kind of an 'in-law.' without BP in the mix, she's got no connection. Ant-man I can't say anything about, I missed those issues.


    Luke Cage? Hulk? Wolverine? Ghost Rider? Not Family. Usually ENEMIES. Between Wolvie's face slashing and Hulk's epic beatdowns... None of them are invited to Thanksgiving.

  8. #53
    Astonishing Member Gaastra's Avatar
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    Between Wolvie's face slashing
    And logan went to thing to say sorry and they went out and had drinks together after they talked. Hulk and thing may not get along that much but thing did stand up from hulk at one time when the army attacked him and every year they have a arm wrestling contest. (this lead to a funny story with a bunch of bad guys wanting to attack them but both ignored the bad guys.) Ant-man and cassie got along well with the ff. They even lived with the ff while there. As did lyja and kristoff.


    You really want to talk about mixed up members try to figure out who is a defender. With the "no team" rule and "defender for a day" saying anyone can just join many think ANY one who helped the defenders on a mission is a member and others don't! Some sites list wasp and man-thing as members and others don't. The wiki members page changes all the time! What a mess!
    Last edited by Gaastra; 09-17-2020 at 07:08 PM.

  9. #54
    Spectacular Member Billy Maximoff's Avatar
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    The FF because they don't change their roster that much.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Maximoff View Post
    The FF because they don't change their roster that much.
    Again, it's the FF. They're more revered and respected throughout the entire MU than most.

  11. #56
    Astonishing Member From The Shadows's Avatar
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    I think the Avengers despite Marvel wanting us to think, in story that the FF is the most loved and respected. But FF has gotten into a lot of trouble especially due to Reed, even the Shiar went after him for helping Galactus. They were actually seen as odd and troublesome and saw them as responsible for the more bizarre things going on.

    Edit: Also they ere most likely to team up with the X-Men then the Avengers would.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by From The Shadows View Post
    I think the Avengers despite Marvel wanting us to think, in story that the FF is the most loved and respected. But FF has gotten into a lot of trouble especially due to Reed, even the Shiar went after him for helping Galactus. They were actually seen as odd and troublesome and saw them as responsible for the more bizarre things going on.

    Edit: Also they ere most likely to team up with the X-Men then the Avengers would.
    I disagree. Right now, the Avengers are Marvel's cash cow mostly because of the movies. More notoriety in the last 10 to 12 years than the FF. But the FF are still more beloved than the Avengers. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

  13. #58
    Astonishing Member phantom1592's Avatar
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    I think the Avengers lost a bit status around the Civil War time when we had Avengers, Dark Avengers, Secret Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Great Lakes Avengers, anybody and everyone Avengers... Once 'everyone' is called an Avenger, it loses a lot of the prestige that it had.

  14. #59
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phantom1592 View Post
    I think the Avengers lost a bit status around the Civil War time when we had Avengers, Dark Avengers, Secret Avengers, Mighty Avengers, Great Lakes Avengers, anybody and everyone Avengers... Once 'everyone' is called an Avenger, it loses a lot of the prestige that it had.
    I thought their actions in Civil War were what cost them some of that respect. I mean, when you have Iron Man and those who sided with him going full-tilt fascist, locking up anyone that objects to or resists registration in a Negative Zone prison where they don't have to heed Earth's laws against cruel and unusual treatment of prisoners, then unleashing a weaponized Thor clone that goes out of control and murders Bill Foster, yet somehow nobody really pays for that . . .
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #60
    Boisterously Confused
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    Even discounting Civil War, the Avengers have been more likely to draw serious public ire over their history. Their membership has brought out bigots of every stripe against them. Further, their large and variable roster makes it easy for doubters to characterize them as a dangerous, private vigilante army.

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