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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    But how displeased were they? If Whedon was going around like the fictional version of Captain Bligh, sure, but if they were just unhappy with the changes to the movie and new direction, does anybody here think that's a HR problem?
    It's not. HR can't do anything about a movie's direction. That falls on who hired the director and approved the script changes.


    It’s interesting to me that some people are comparing this to John Boyega speaking out.
    What John Boyega dealt with doesn't even COMPARE to this.

    Disney PANDERED to the trolls when it came to John and marginalized him. In EVERYTHING.

    Remember Abrams had to FIGHT to get him cast.

    In John's case EVERYBODY got to see it happen.

    The insults, death threats, calls to shoot up movie theaters and so on.

    John went scorch Earth. He went through 4 years of that.

  2. #182
    Fantastic Member basbash99's Avatar
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    So basically, after saying NOTHING negative about the production during all of 2018 and 2019, right after Fisher gets a lowball offer for a [diminished] part in the Flash movie, he coincidentally remembers just then that Whedon was toxic and abusive? And since saying that, has offered scant evidence of his claim while not mentioning that he was trying to renegotiate for a higher salary? So much for this being all about "accountability > entertainment"... seems like its more about " $$$ > having principles"

    That said, i have no doubt that Whedon was a jerk to work for during these reshoots. But 'toxic' and 'abusive' are incendiary terms to use, especially in the #metoo era. I doubt this was a very pleasant experience for Whedon, either. Ultimately the blame lies at the fault of studio execs who suddenly realized that Snyder was never going to give them kid-friendly superhero movies that would generate big bucks in merchandising sales, despite it being obvious to everyone else from the get-go.

    I also think the decision to limit the runtime to 2 hours for a movie that has to introduce 3 new superheroes AND their supporting casts AND the villain AND the macguffin, AND deal with the resurrection of Superman, made it impossible for this film to be successful on top of the already dauntingly brief timeframe Whedon had to work with.

  3. #183
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    But how displeased were they? If Whedon was going around like the fictional version of Captain Bligh, sure, but if they were just unhappy with the changes to the movie and new direction, does anybody here think that's a HR problem?
    Going from what Grace Randolph talked on her videos about the Snyder Cut, some big part of it was loyalty for Snyder, what probably was made bigger by Whedon behavior on set. Apparently Cavill was the only one that wasn't that upset about Snyder replacement. But again, all this is only backed up by what Randolph have said on her videos. Watch any of her videos about the Snyder Cut and you will probably hear her talking about it.

  4. #184
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basbash99 View Post
    So basically, after saying NOTHING negative about the production during all of 2018 and 2019, right after Fisher gets a lowball offer for a [diminished] part in the Flash movie, he coincidentally remembers just then that Whedon was toxic and abusive? And since saying that, has offered scant evidence of his claim while not mentioning that he was trying to renegotiate for a higher salary? So much for this being all about "accountability > entertainment"... seems like its more about " $$$ > having principles"

    That said, i have no doubt that Whedon was a jerk to work for during these reshoots. But 'toxic' and 'abusive' are incendiary terms to use, especially in the #metoo era. I doubt this was a very pleasant experience for Whedon, either. Ultimately the blame lies at the fault of studio execs who suddenly realized that Snyder was never going to give them kid-friendly superhero movies that would generate big bucks in merchandising sales, despite it being obvious to everyone else from the get-go.

    I also think the decision to limit the runtime to 2 hours for a movie that has to introduce 3 new superheroes AND their supporting casts AND the villain AND the macguffin, AND deal with the resurrection of Superman, made it impossible for this film to be successful on top of the already dauntingly brief timeframe Whedon had to work with.
    It's possible he was keeping quiet on the toxic behavior because he thought it was part of the territory but he'd get to keep playing Cyborg and get big parts. We just don't know much right now.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    It's possible he was keeping quiet on the toxic behavior because he thought it was part of the territory but he'd get to keep playing Cyborg and get big parts. We just don't know much right now.
    Agreed. Until we get something more specific, it's pretty tricky to have a particularly strong opinion about any of this. There's certainly a long sad history of Hollywood sweeping morally reprehensible behavior under the rug, but there's also the possibility that this is another young actor who's trying to drum up publicity in order to gain more fame and a bigger paycheck.

    Or it could be a bit of both.

    At this point, I have no idea which is true.

  6. #186
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Agreed. Until we get something more specific, it's pretty tricky to have a particularly strong opinion about any of this. There's certainly a long sad history of Hollywood sweeping morally reprehensible behavior under the rug, but there's also the possibility that this is another young actor who's trying to drum up publicity in order to gain more fame and a bigger paycheck.

    Or it could be a bit of both.

    At this point, I have no idea which is true.
    Pretty much this. I'm skeptical because of how cards have still yet to fall on the table, but I don't ever want to back the mega corporation blindly. If the alleged wrongdoing did in fact take place, then I do wish for it to come to light and better practices be put into effect, but until we get more concrete evidence my only real stance is I want this to go down ethnically and the truth to get out. It'd be a nice change of pace for 2020 at least.

  7. #187
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Agreed. Until we get something more specific, it's pretty tricky to have a particularly strong opinion about any of this. There's certainly a long sad history of Hollywood sweeping morally reprehensible behavior under the rug, but there's also the possibility that this is another young actor who's trying to drum up publicity in order to gain more fame and a bigger paycheck.

    Or it could be a bit of both.

    At this point, I have no idea which is true.
    Very well put. I feel the same.

  8. #188
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Very well put. I feel the same.
    Without any evidence presently, I don't know how anybody can choose a side at the moment.
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  9. #189
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Allegedly Dianne Nelson has added some more credibility to Johns being a dick according to a now-deleted tweet.

    Certainly reminds of when she mentioned he's "no buddy of mine," though she's not exactly innocent either. Berganza got work under her. Real shame all this continues to keep happening.

    Whatever went down, this shit needs to stop.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Allegedly Dianne Nelson has added some more credibility to Johns being a dick according to a now-deleted tweet.

    Certainly reminds of when she mentioned he's "no buddy of mine," though she's not exactly innocent either. Berganza got work under her. Real shame all this continues to keep happening.

    Whatever went down, this shit needs to stop.
    It seems something definitely went down between Nelson and Johns. Around the time of BvS, there was stuff getting leaked to the press about how Nelson and Johns had been advising against the dark tone Snyder was going for since MoS. Perhaps they were both angling for the same top job at DC Films and she felt burned?

    Who knows

  11. #191
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    With the caveat that all DC execs who let Berganza, Lobdell etc continue working for them are inherently heinous on some level, Johns being a douche in office politics doesnít necessarily translate to what Fisher is accusing him of re Whedonís attitude.

    I can absolutely by him being THAT petty A dick to Fisher about Doom Patrol though. But itís not actionable the way the main stuff is

    That said, sooner or later I would expect WB to toss Johns under a bus and I must selfishly wonder how bad the backlash on pretty much the very thing he touched in DC is going to be (Stargirl would definitely to dropped into limbo/event fodder)

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    With the caveat that all DC execs who let Berganza, Lobdell etc continue working for them are inherently heinous on some level, Johns being a douche in office politics doesn’t necessarily translate to what Fisher is accusing him of re Whedon’s attitude.

    I can absolutely by him being THAT petty A dick to Fisher about Doom Patrol though. But it’s not actionable the way the main stuff is

    That said, sooner or later I would expect WB to toss Johns under a bus and I must selfishly wonder how bad the backlash on pretty much the very thing he touched in DC is going to be (Stargirl would definitely to dropped into limbo/event fodder)
    In what way?

  13. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    In what way?
    That Johns would brag about all the shows he was producing and how they had a new Cyborg

    Not knowing the guy, I’m not sure he himself would think of it as being petty and might just be the whole aging faboy thing he’s had going for a while, but since pretty much no one walked away from JL with positive feelings, I can’t see any other reason to mention it to Fisher (since I assume he wouldn’t be dumb enough to make up something wholecloth*)

    *as opposed to spinning something not great but not scandalous into well, this

  14. #194
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    That Johns would brag about all the shows he was producing and how they had a new Cyborg

    Not knowing the guy, I’m not sure he himself would think of it as being petty and might just be the whole aging faboy thing he’s had going for a while, but since pretty much no one walked away from JL with positive feelings, I can’t see any other reason to mention it to Fisher (since I assume he wouldn’t be dumb enough to make up something wholecloth*)

    *as opposed to spinning something not great but not scandalous into well, this
    I mean, I could see Johns talking about being excited about the shows but not brag out it to spite Fisher, but maybe Fisher took it wrong...or maybe he didn't. Could the bad blood have been that bad for Johns to actually call him out of pettiness? I don't know.

  15. #195
    Astonishing Member Pohzee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Allegedly Dianne Nelson has added some more credibility to Johns being a dick according to a now-deleted tweet.

    Certainly reminds of when she mentioned he's "no buddy of mine," though she's not exactly innocent either. Berganza got work under her. Real shame all this continues to keep happening.

    Whatever went down, this shit needs to stop.
    A "dick" is weaker wording than she used. She essentially alleged that he was an abuser based on the chain she was replying to
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