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  1. #136
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Except we should some idea now, he's been at this for a while and this began with charging Whedon with on set abuse. Social media can pressure WB to do things, except if it's unclear the affect will be less effective. Trade negotiations don't do go down like this.Being quiet is not the same thing a shutting up, telling your opponent every step of what you're doing on social media leading to law suit may in fact help them - that's why it's a good strategy to speak up as soon as the law suit is made, because WB won't see it coming. Chaos hurts Fisher here. You're overthinking this, going after abuse with a company has certain procedures, formally and informally and Fisher's using parts of various strategies not a single one.
    "We", as fans, only "should" know as much as it's strategically beneficial for Fisher to say.

    You keep mentioning a lawsuit, which hasn't happened yet, and I keep saying that a lawsuit is not the first step you take in a workplace conflict with a big corporation like this. I'm not overthinking it, I just know the realities of how costly and limiting starting with a lawsuit can be. The strategy will depend on Fisher's specific goals and his specific accusations. We don't know enough to make a judgement yet. And that's that. You can like or dislike what you're hearing, but we can't say for sure whether it's a sound strategy or not.

  2. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    "We", as fans, only "should" know as much as it's strategically beneficial for Fisher to say.
    It's not beneficial to Fisher when his own supporters don't know other if he's trying to get a lawsuit against WB/Whedon over abuse or using public pressure for his role as Cyborg. When people do things like this their goals aren't a muddled as what Fisher's doing.

    You keep mentioning a lawsuit, which hasn't happened yet, and I keep saying that a lawsuit is not the first step you take in a workplace conflict with a big corporation like this. I'm not overthinking it, I just know the realities of how costly and limiting starting with a lawsuit can be. The strategy will depend on Fisher's specific goals and his specific accusations. We don't know enough to make a judgement yet. And that's that. You can like or dislike what you're hearing, but we can't say for sure whether it's a sound strategy or not.
    I mention a lawsuit since that's a valid goal he may be aiming for, and because how he's acting feels like he's in the middle of a lawsuit. I get how hard into if for Fisher to win in a lawsuit over this, but he's acted so erratic lately and he was very confident in his last video about putting WB in bind. That doesn't mean he might not be thinking about it, it's just his "strategy" is so bizarre it's hard to nail down what his goals are. We know enough to make judgements on what Fisher's doing, he didn't start this yesterday. We don't know his specific goals and actuations, when we should have some idea at this stage. Just because Fisher is doing something doesn't mean we can't question what he's doing.

    A big problem is that Fisher's not doing the usual procedure for dealing with abuse in social media or contactual negotiations shouldn't be hand waved away like it's normal.

  3. #138
    Ultimate Member Holt's Avatar
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    I can't reasonably say this is just him pushing for a better deal for Cyborg. He has to know his role as Cyborg is done. I cannot think of a single case where an actor made this level of noise and publicly named his bosses in alleged wrongdoings (while revealing closed door details) and still kept their job. He'd have to be a lunatic to think the studio would still wanna pay him to act in their movies after this, even if Johns and Hamada are ultimately disciplined.
    Last edited by Holt; 09-18-2020 at 11:08 PM.

  4. #139
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    was't there recent articles that saiid fisher started making accusations a few days after receiving an offer to appear as a cameo in the flash movie. guess he received a derisory offer and felt it beneath his status. with the cyborg movie not happening ,his jla role cut short and appearing only in a short cameo, guess he believes he deserves better.

  5. #140
    Better than YOU! Alan2099's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    Ray Fisher has made accusations of abuse. He has also accused WB of looking the other way, and also not conducting a fair & impartial investigation. You can already tell on this thread that there's a base of fans who believe his accusations. If WB were to suddenly fire Fisher and recast his role, undoubtedly he will go on the offensive and those who already believe him will dig deeper in that support.

    So I definitely believe WB has to tread lightly if they're going to fire Fisher, especially since we don't even know what his accusations are.
    I disagree. All they have to due is say something about "due to ongoing investigations and a potential conflict of interest" and they're pretty much off the hook.

    Why would anyone hire somebody that's actively seeking legal action against them? It could be seen as bribery.

  6. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshal88 View Post
    was't there recent articles that saiid fisher started making accusations a few days after receiving an offer to appear as a cameo in the flash movie. guess he received a derisory offer and felt it beneath his status. with the cyborg movie not happening ,his jla role cut short and appearing only in a short cameo, guess he believes he deserves better.
    How???

    He chose to take the role of a character that outside of Doom Patrol, Super Friends and Teen Titans shows, has been CRAPPED on.

    Out of all the established talented black male actors in Hollywood-including some already working for the WB like Eli Goree or Rj Culver Jr. He got the role.

    Who was asking for a Cyborg movie in the WAKE of the Black Panther and Into the Spiderverse Oscar winning wave? Along with the John Boyega saga with Star Wars.

    The ripfest it would have gotten for tossing out a black movie with a guy missing body parts in this pollical climate would have been hard.

    He though he deserved better?
    John Boyega scorched EARTH the crap out of Disney due to fan abuse.
    RJ Culver deserved better after Power Rangers failed him.
    Michael B Jordan started in a billion dollar Oscar willing film and had to get therapy. Most of his movies and shows are produced by HIM. Same with Jason Moama.
    Daisy Riley starred in 3 movies that made over 3 BILLION-she can't get gigs.

    They all deserved better. There are a lot of folks who did hit movies and shows especially folks that look like HIM. That deserved better and couldn't get more work.

    Where were the veteran actors to talk to him at?

  7. #142
    Spectacular Member the COMET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holt View Post
    I can't reasonably say this is just him pushing for a better deal for Cyborg. He has to know his role as Cyborg is done. I cannot think of a single case where an actor made this level of noise and publicly named his bosses in alleged wrongdoings (while revealing closed door details) and still kept their job. He'd have to be a lunatic to think the studio would still wanna pay him to act in their movies after this, even if Johns and Hamada are ultimately disciplined.
    Unless....

  8. #143
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    It's not beneficial to Fisher when his own supporters don't know other if he's trying to get a lawsuit against WB/Whedon over abuse or using public pressure for his role as Cyborg. When people do things like this their goals aren't a muddled as what Fisher's doing.

    I mention a lawsuit since that's a valid goal he may be aiming for, and because how he's acting feels like he's in the middle of a lawsuit. I get how hard into if for Fisher to win in a lawsuit over this, but he's acted so erratic lately and he was very confident in his last video about putting WB in bind. That doesn't mean he might not be thinking about it, it's just his "strategy" is so bizarre it's hard to nail down what his goals are. We know enough to make judgements on what Fisher's doing, he didn't start this yesterday. We don't know his specific goals and actuations, when we should have some idea at this stage. Just because Fisher is doing something doesn't mean we can't question what he's doing.

    A big problem is that Fisher's not doing the usual procedure for dealing with abuse in social media or contactual negotiations shouldn't be hand waved away like it's normal.
    Right. And maybe he's NOT trying to file a lawsuit, at least not as his first option. Which circles back to the reality that we don't know the strategic value of public but vague assertions. It is hard to nail down what his goals are, which is my point.

    And if he's to be believed, he tried the conventional route, and was denied. Which can't be hand-waived away either.

  9. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Right. And maybe he's NOT trying to file a lawsuit, at least not as his first option. Which circles back to the reality that we don't know the strategic value of public but vague assertions. It is hard to nail down what his goals are, which is my point.
    There are more options available to him than a law suit, and we've gone over them. We weren't disagreeing over his vague goals, we were disagreeing on whether being vague helped his cause/s. How is what he's doing helping him? The causes which he gravitates towards aren't suppose to be vague to his supporters.

    And if he's to be believed, he tried the conventional route, and was denied. Which can't be hand-waived away either.
    Nobody's denying that, there are more conventional routes for what he's doing than going up the food chain internally. It's not like Hollywood is alien to people brokering deals for roles or using the press to curb abuse and toxic environments behind the scenes. Which is why it's so puzzling Fisher's not doing any of it.

  10. #145
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    We weren't disagreeing over his vague goals, we were disagreeing on whether being vague helped his cause/s. How is what he's doing helping him? The causes which he gravitates towards aren't suppose to be vague to his supporters.
    I think the crux of the debate lies here. I feel that we cannot know if being vague benefits him for sure without knowing his goals. If a lawsuit is his plan b or c, as his last resort, he might not want to articulate things in layman's terms that might contradict what his lawer carefully puts down in ink. But, WB has eyes on them now, and since this issue is now in the public eye, Ray has some leverage he wouldn't have otherwise.

  11. #146
    Astonishing Member BatmanJones's Avatar
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    I've only read the first and last page of this thread and I have one other option to mention in case it hasn't been covered...

    Maybe he didn't do any of this to further his career or from a beef over a cameo or so he could make money from a lawsuit. Maybe, just maybe, he was genuinely mistreated and he just wants people to know about it as a matter of justice. Is that possible at all?

    And isn't seeking justice the sort of thing Cyborg or any other superhero might do?

  12. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyvolt2000 View Post
    How???

    He chose to take the role of a character that outside of Doom Patrol, Super Friends and Teen Titans shows, has been CRAPPED on.

    Out of all the established talented black male actors in Hollywood-including some already working for the WB like Eli Goree or Rj Culver Jr. He got the role.

    Who was asking for a Cyborg movie in the WAKE of the Black Panther and Into the Spiderverse Oscar winning wave? Along with the John Boyega saga with Star Wars.

    The ripfest it would have gotten for tossing out a black movie with a guy missing body parts in this pollical climate would have been hard.

    He though he deserved better?
    John Boyega scorched EARTH the crap out of Disney due to fan abuse.
    RJ Culver deserved better after Power Rangers failed him.
    Michael B Jordan started in a billion dollar Oscar willing film and had to get therapy. Most of his movies and shows are produced by HIM. Same with Jason Moama.
    Daisy Riley starred in 3 movies that made over 3 BILLION-she can't get gigs.

    They all deserved better. There are a lot of folks who did hit movies and shows especially folks that look like HIM. That deserved better and couldn't get more work.

    Where were the veteran actors to talk to him at?
    Funny that you mentioned Boyega who just stood by and commented on Tran leaving social media as “not mentally strong” to please the toxic fanbase.

  13. #148
    Extraordinary Member kjn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    I've only read the first and last page of this thread and I have one other option to mention in case it hasn't been covered...

    Maybe he didn't do any of this to further his career or from a beef over a cameo or so he could make money from a lawsuit. Maybe, just maybe, he was genuinely mistreated and he just wants people to know about it as a matter of justice. Is that possible at all?

    And isn't seeking justice the sort of thing Cyborg or any other superhero might do?
    From what I understand, Fisher has a background in blue collar jobs and unions, so I think it's quite possible that's part of his motivation.

    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    Funny that you mentioned Boyega who just stood by and commented on Tran leaving social media as “not mentally strong” to please the toxic fanbase.
    Nice derailing here, bringing up a malicious interpretation of a poorly worded remark that Boyega since has apologised for.
    «Speaking generally, it is because of the desire of the tragic poets for the marvellous that so varied and inconsistent an account of Medea has been given out» (Diodorus Siculus, The Library of History [4.56.1])

  14. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by kjn View Post
    Nice derailing here, bringing up a malicious interpretation of a poorly worded remark that Boyega since has apologised for.
    He apologized and denied his words under the backlashes from public views so I have to believe him and forgive him? Nice practicing emotional blackmail here.

  15. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I think the crux of the debate lies here. I feel that we cannot know if being vague benefits him for sure without knowing his goals. If a lawsuit is his plan b or c, as his last resort, he might not want to articulate things in layman's terms that might contradict what his lawer carefully puts down in ink. But, WB has eyes on them now, and since this issue is now in the public eye, Ray has some leverage he wouldn't have otherwise.
    Didn't answer my question: how is this helping him? We don't need to know exactly what his goals are to speculate on what his options for retaliating against WB are, and if he is trying to get a law suit he's made errors in public which could hurt him if it gets to that stage - like saying he won't obey gag orders and refusing to work with third party investigators. How he's going about this is also not how people ramp up into law suits, all he's done is make some noises in that direction so it can't be ruled out. WB's going to be prepared for every eventuality.

    His leverage, if he truly has some evidence, is eroding the longer it takes to real specifics, saying things in public which WB can use against him in court, and his erratic behaviour. He needs to do this sooner rather than later, WB will be able to wait him out and he loses spotlight once The Snyder Cut is released.

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