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  1. #106
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    -cooperate with the 3rd party investigation
    -don't tell others to not cooperate with the investigation
    .
    If he honestly believes that WB hasn't hired a 3rd party investigator, but rather a corporate lackey who will simply use the investigation as a way of figuring out what everyone has in order to better cover it up, then I don't know if this is necessarily a bad idea. Granted, it's entirely possible Fisher is being overly paranoid and getting bad advice from his representatives. At this point, either is possible.

  2. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Hollywood is due for more change to protect their workers but if anything Fisher's going to make that more difficult for the next person to do it.
    You could very well be right, but all this speculation and supposition on our parts is based upon so little information, it's very difficult to say whether or not Fisher is actually going about this in the best way possible.

    My current instinct is that there's real dirt that Warner Bros. is hiding here, and Fisher is stuck in a legal quagmire in terms of what he can and can't say.

    But who knows what next week will bring...

  3. #108
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Username taken View Post
    Quoted for truth.

    I believe Fisher that the experience for everyone during the reshoots was shitty to say the least but calling it “abuse” takes it to a whole new level. And if it could involve legal troubles then he should keep shut until the process is over.

    I don’t know much about NDAs but I’m curious about what sort of NDAs cover explicitly abusive situations.
    NDAs can cover all manner of sins, as long as it isn't illegal. "Disgusting, abusive, and unprofessional behavior" would certainly be covered by any standard NDA. The fact that Fisher has referenced his NDA as the reason he can't elaborate further makes sense to me, but your mileage may vary

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Fisher is explicitly claiming that witnesses that were in contact with the investigator are being ghosted. Not sure what's laughable about that claim.

    It's also not exactly regular procedure to claim you're doing an impartial investigation while hiring what's essentially an in-house firm.


    "Hey I want to report abusive behavior and I don't want to talk about what exactly happened. But you should consult these witnesses first before you talk to me."
    And Fisher thinks if they don't do as he said that means the investigation is biased. LOL
    Last edited by HAN9000; 09-18-2020 at 01:34 AM.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    You could very well be right, but all this speculation and supposition on our parts is based upon so little information, it's very difficult to say whether or not Fisher is actually going about this in the best way possible.

    My current instinct is that there's real dirt that Warner Bros. is hiding here, and Fisher is stuck in a legal quagmire in terms of what he can and can't say.

    But who knows what next week will bring...
    No question he thinks he's caught something bad, but that's not the issue nobody has any problems with standard industry terrible behaviour being given sunlight. If that was this about we'd be less skeptical. But there's a difference between garden variety dirt and abuse. And the fact what he's doing is not following standard procedure for anything.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    "Hey I want to report abusive behavior and I don't want to talk about what exactly happened. But you should consult these witnesses first before you talk to me."
    And Fisher thinks if they don't do as he said that means the investigation is biased. LOL
    But that's not what he's done. If the email he provided is genuine, he talked to the investigator, but ended the call when he learned that there was another person in on the call who he wasn't informed about, so he wasn't going to continue until he had his own representation there as a witness.

  7. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    No question he thinks he's caught something bad, but that's not the issue nobody has any problems with standard industry terrible behaviour being given sunlight. If that was this about we'd be less skeptical. But there's a difference between garden variety dirt and abuse. And the fact what he's doing is not following standard procedure for anything.
    If Fisher's telling the truth, he did follow the standard procedure and took his concerns through the proper channels, but nothing was done.

  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    If Fisher's telling the truth, he did follow the standard procedure and took his concerns through the proper channels, but nothing was done.
    I'm talking about after that, using social media and possibly a law suit. Whatever Fisher's been doing lately.

  9. #114
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    I'm talking about after that, using social media and possibly a law suit. Whatever Fisher's been doing lately.
    Ok. What in your opinion should he have done after?i mean, he would still have a complaint that didn't yield any result.if his objective is to get a gratifying answer or result from the company.

  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    But that's not what he's done. If the email he provided is genuine, he talked to the investigator, but ended the call when he learned that there was another person in on the call who he wasn't informed about, so he wasn't going to continue until he had his own representation there as a witness.
    How many months does he need to get his representatives for another meeting?

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    If Fisher's telling the truth, he did follow the standard procedure and took his concerns through the proper channels, but nothing was done.
    Because he basically said NOTHING. He gave no specifics about anything. How do you expect an investigation team do their work under that situation?
    Nothing Fisher's claimed can be qualified as abuse so far. Whedon didn't abuse him physically or sexually. All we knew is Whedon might've reprimanded Fisher for his unprofessional behavior and absent attitude during the reshooting. That means Fisher is accusing Whedon of acting like a director. LMAO

  12. #117
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    This feels like the biggest mess DC/WB have become embroiled in in quite some time.
    Probably, but still is a hell "smaller" than Disney Mulan debacle. Worst case, they will have to cut ties with Wheadon, Johns and fire a couple executives, while Disney is at risk of seeing a very expensive movie tarnished because of it's ties with the Chinese regime.

  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    But it is a legal issue since the aforementioned "disgusting, abusive, and unprofessional behavior" would be protected by an NDA, which is really the whole problem. Hollywood, along with the rest of the rich and powerful, have been allowed to get away with being horrible people while keeping this behavior out of the public using NDAs. It doesn't help that, in addition to the NDAs, almost everyone in Hollywood is afraid of hurting their career if they reveal what they've seen and heard.

    What do you think Fisher should have done that he hasn't already done? According to him, he tried doing this through the proper channels and it was being buried. During the production and publicity tour, Fisher fulfilled his contractual obligation, kept his mouth shut about how he really felt, and outright lied about Whedon being a good choice to replace Snyder. I don't blame him for wanting to set the record straight given his own culpability in forwarding the "official" story that WB wanted the public to believe.

    Unfortunately, bringing these ugly disputes into the court of public opinion is sometimes the only way to get any traction. Do you think Ellen would have changed her abusive behavior if her employees hadn't made it public?
    As has been pointed out earlier, an actual crime doesn't invalidate a NDA. Now an NDA could hold him back potentially against a civil action, but he could still go to civil court for a contract issue (though not broadcast it publicly). IMO, what Ray is doing is pressuring WB through social media to do his bidding and hoping that will do the trick without having to put real meat on his allegations. Maybe it will work, but I won't bet any money on it.

    The funny thing is I like him and understand where he's coming from. I just think he's burning a whole lot of bridges and probably his career, which is unfortunate.
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  14. #119
    Fantastic Member basbash99's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Probably, but still is a hell "smaller" than Disney Mulan debacle. Worst case, they will have to cut ties with Wheadon, Johns and fire a couple executives, while Disney is at risk of seeing a very expensive movie tarnished because of it's ties with the Chinese regime.
    Nah, Mulan will be remembered as a financial flop but easy enough to chalk that up to COVID. Its not a film that people get as invested in personally they way superhero movie fans do. And plenty of people will watch it for free on D+ in December, regardless of any controversy over where it was filmed.

    JL on the other hand was not a flop but ultimately pleased neither Snyder fans nor Snyder haters, who have been arguing about it since its release. And now, when WB is on the brink of releasing the snyder cut which presumably would bring back the snyder fans who found shazam, aquaman and WW "too mcu", we have this huge controversy that will seemingly generate endless conspiracy theories due to the cryptic nature of Fisher's accusations. Those who might've watched JL just for the 'train wreck' factor may tune out either because they dislike Ray's shenanigans or because they believe Ray and want to punish DC execs. It feels like this Fisher vs WB stuff, along with the layoffs on the comic end, trumped any good announcements coming out of DC fandome and seems to be all anybody is talking about in terms of DC movies currently. Of course just my opinion and i could easily be wrong but these are my impressions.

  15. #120
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basbash99 View Post
    Nah, Mulan will be remembered as a financial flop but easy enough to chalk that up to COVID. Its not a film that people get as invested in personally they way superhero movie fans do. And plenty of people will watch it for free on D+ in December, regardless of any controversy over where it was filmed.

    JL on the other hand was not a flop but ultimately pleased neither Snyder fans nor Snyder haters, who have been arguing about it since its release. And now, when WB is on the brink of releasing the snyder cut which presumably would bring back the snyder fans who found shazam, aquaman and WW "too mcu", we have this huge controversy that will seemingly generate endless conspiracy theories due to the cryptic nature of Fisher's accusations. Those who might've watched JL just for the 'train wreck' factor may tune out either because they dislike Ray's shenanigans or because they believe Ray and want to punish DC execs. It feels like this Fisher vs WB stuff, along with the layoffs on the comic end, trumped any good announcements coming out of DC fandome and seems to be all anybody is talking about in terms of DC movies currently. Of course just my opinion and i could easily be wrong but these are my impressions.
    The thing is, the fans that come to forums like this, we don't represent the overall public. Most people don't know and don't care that Fisher is accusing WB, specially because his accusations aren't clear, this won't hit the general public in the same way, people don't avoid movies because the director is a jerk, they avoid it because the director is misogynistic, racist, or a rapist.

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