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  1. #16
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Which is indeed the crux of it. No details. They could be talking about many things, from disappointment to a thoughtless Whedon and company, to much worse versions of them, to Bryan Singer territory. But they haven't said, though they were talking about it months ago. Why wait? Why not say? It just seems a bit off, with them not revealing any details about what they're alleging. It also seems a bit unfair, charging Whedon and the others in the court of public opinion...without even saying exactly what they're upset about, and thus depriving him and the others of any way to defend themselves. Or address the allegations at all.

    Honestly, Fisher and Mamoa could change all that in an instant by providing details, and any collaborating evidence they may have. Filing a suit would help too, if their complaint rises to a civil level, or making any criminal allegations to relevant authorities. Then we all could judge for ourselves, and Fisher and Mamoa could start a process to rectify whatever their complaint is.

    On a side note, I would assume they've made details of their complaint known to WB at least.
    If I were representing them in this matter, I absolutely wouldn't advise them to spill out the details on social media. The fact we haven't heard details yet shouldn't be held as some kind of indicator that there's nothing meaningful about what they're alluding to. As a fan and outsider I'm frustrated at the vagueness of it, but it's perfectly understandable given the complex nature of employment law, slander/libel laws, and litigation generally. If there's any truth to what Fisher has been saying, he went to WB, didn't have his concerns addressed, and used what public support he could to leverage WB's acknowledgement. There are plenty of strategic considerations that only Fisher and his lawyers will know intimately.

  2. #17
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Yes, shit treatment isn't specific enough. Now, if Fisher start making acusations of racism, for example, then things will get serious.
    Right, but since we're all in the dark over the details, I can't beat up on Whedon and Friends at the moment.
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  3. #18
    Extraordinary Member j9ac9k's Avatar
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    Now Fisher is claiming that WB has been making all these announcements to "distract" from the investigation. But, what does that even mean? There's an active investigation, and they will find what they find regardless of WB announcing Keaton in the Flash movie or not. It may distract the general public, but why does that matter if there's already an investigation taking place? The general public has no bearing on the case. It would seem then that what he cares about is the attention his story is getting and he wants everyone to see his side and stay in the headlines. (though he's not being the most forthcoming himself) Whether he's right or not about Whedon's behavior, this kind of thing isn't helping his credibility, imo.

    And why doesn't he call out his Flash colleague for choking a woman if he cares about abusive behavior? Because he's negotiating to be in "Flashpoint?" Until real details come out about the abuse and it's corroborated by someone on the record, I can't take him seriously and it just seems like he and Whedon didn't get along.
    Last edited by j9ac9k; 09-16-2020 at 09:25 AM.

  4. #19
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Who announces a fake movie to deflect attention away from possible controversy?

  5. #20
    Fantastic Member Hol's Avatar
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    Can someone breakout exactly what Joss Whedon and whoever are accused of? I looked online a few times and couldn't find specifics. Rays comments seemed pretty vague. And the Wonder Woman boob fall thing seemed kind of silly to me but maybe I need more context.

    Thanks!

  6. #21
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hol View Post
    Can someone breakout exactly what Joss Whedon and whoever are accused of? I looked online a few times and couldn't find specifics. Rays comments seemed pretty vague. And the Wonder Woman boob fall thing seemed kind of silly to me but maybe I need more context.

    Thanks!
    There's not much concrete, but this is a decent summary of the initial accusations.

    https://screenrant.com/justice-leagu...ion-explained/

    Fisher said that "Joss Wheadon’s [sic] on-set treatment of the cast and crew of Justice League was gross, abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable. He was enabled, in many ways, by Geoff Johns and Jon Berg." He repeated these accusations in another tweet, saying "Geoff Johns, Joss Whedon, Jon Berg (and others) grossly abused their power during the uncertainty of AT&T’s merger with Time Warner." When he tried raising these issues at WB, he said that Geoff Johns "made a thinly veiled threat to my career" Berg then responded that he remembers Fisher not wanting to say the phrase "Booyah". (In a separate interview, Fisher does mention that he didn't want Cyborg "relegated to being the catchphrase spitting ‘cool Black dude’. That’s not anything that I’m interested in watching. It’s definitely not anything I’m interested in portraying.” But Fisher himself never brought that up in the context of these accusations.)

    Then WB said they were launching an investigation into these abuse claims, which Fisher seemed happy with. In a social media post, Fisher said he met with their investigator virtually, but had to cut it short in order to double-check certain things with his lawyers, principally that this investigator was indeed independent. He then accused the investigator of not being independent at all, and purposefully ignoring/ghosting witnesses who gave damning statements to WB's HR.

    https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/statu...on-response%2F

    Now Momoa is backing Fisher, saying "Serious stuff went down" and claiming that their fake announcement of a Frosty movie starring him was done to distract from his support of Fisher's claims.

    So, yeah. Not a whole lot concrete. But we'll have to wait for more details.

  7. #22
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by j9ac9k View Post
    And why doesn't he call out his Flash colleague for choking a woman if he cares about abusive behavior? Because he's negotiating to be in "Flashpoint?"
    That's pretty different IMO. Fisher wasn't there to see the incident happen, doesn't know if the woman received any kind of restitution, and that incident didn't occur in an employer-employee setting under the supervision of a powerful corporation. And it frankly doesn't really involve him personally at all. The accusations he's making clearly impacted him personally.

  8. #23
    Fantastic Member Hol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    There's not much concrete, but this is a decent summary of the initial accusations.

    https://screenrant.com/justice-leagu...ion-explained/

    Fisher said that "Joss Wheadon’s [sic] on-set treatment of the cast and crew of Justice League was gross, abusive, unprofessional, and completely unacceptable. He was enabled, in many ways, by Geoff Johns and Jon Berg." He repeated these accusations in another tweet, saying "Geoff Johns, Joss Whedon, Jon Berg (and others) grossly abused their power during the uncertainty of AT&T’s merger with Time Warner." When he tried raising these issues at WB, he said that Geoff Johns "made a thinly veiled threat to my career" Berg then responded that he remembers Fisher not wanting to say the phrase "Booyah". (In a separate interview, Fisher does mention that he didn't want Cyborg "relegated to being the catchphrase spitting ‘cool Black dude’. That’s not anything that I’m interested in watching. It’s definitely not anything I’m interested in portraying.” But Fisher himself never brought that up in the context of these accusations.)

    Then WB said they were launching an investigation into these abuse claims, which Fisher seemed happy with. In a social media post, Fisher said he met with their investigator virtually, but had to cut it short in order to double-check certain things with his lawyers, principally that this investigator was indeed independent. He then accused the investigator of not being independent at all, and purposefully ignoring/ghosting witnesses who gave damning statements to WB's HR.

    https://twitter.com/ray8fisher/statu...on-response%2F

    Now Momoa is backing Fisher, saying "Serious stuff went down" and claiming that their fake announcement of a Frosty movie starring him was done to distract from his support of Fisher's claims.

    So, yeah. Not a whole lot concrete. But we'll have to wait for more details.
    Thank you!

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    If I were representing them in this matter, I absolutely wouldn't advise them to spill out the details on social media. The fact we haven't heard details yet shouldn't be held as some kind of indicator that there's nothing meaningful about what they're alluding to. As a fan and outsider I'm frustrated at the vagueness of it, but it's perfectly understandable given the complex nature of employment law, slander/libel laws, and litigation generally. If there's any truth to what Fisher has been saying, he went to WB, didn't have his concerns addressed, and used what public support he could to leverage WB's acknowledgement. There are plenty of strategic considerations that only Fisher and his lawyers will know intimately.
    Well, if you were representing them, you'd also advise them not to go on social media making accusations. Instead, file that suit, or turn over your allegations to the relevant police agency if they rise to that level. I imagine that's what most lawyers would say.

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    To me this still just sound like a young actor with almost no on set experience not really knowing how things work in Hollywood. From the sound of it Snyder had a very loose feel around set, and if that was what Fisher was used to then another guy coming in when things were already a mess and having to get things done fast and cheap then I'm sure to him it did feel abusive. The funny thing is he says Johns threatened to ruin his career when him making this big fuss about percieved mistreatment probably has ruined his career way more than anything Johns or Whedon could have ever done to him. This production was such a mess by the time Whedon and crew came on I'm sure tensions were running very high just to get this clusterfuck done.

  11. #26
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by achilles View Post
    Well, if you were representing them, you'd also advise them not to go on social media making accusations. Instead, file that suit, or turn over your allegations to the relevant police agency if they rise to that level. I imagine that's what most lawyers would say.
    Filing a suit embarks on a long, costly, and tedious process that closes certain preferable avenues for restitution or contractual relationships. Fisher is clearly using public support as leverage against WB, while still preserving claims he could use later if it does come down to a lawsuit. But suing multiple big wigs and one of the most powerful corporations in the world is definitely not the advisable first step. People seem to think "if they did something, then prove it and file complaints/press charges!" But it's not that simple. Publicizing these accusations (however vague) has made the issue inescapable for Warner Bros., and potentially gave him access to information (from WB itself or other witnesses) that he hadn't had previously.
    Last edited by Lightning Rider; 09-16-2020 at 11:32 AM.

  12. #27
    Chad Jar Jar Pinsir's Avatar
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    Considering what we know of Joss 'primae noctis' Whedon, he's clearly guilty. Makes me wonder what he did during his Avengers time. So far I'll give Geoff John's a pass, JL was probably a difficult work environment and I like his comics.
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  13. #28
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    To me this still just sound like a young actor with almost no on set experience not really knowing how things work in Hollywood. From the sound of it Snyder had a very loose feel around set, and if that was what Fisher was used to then another guy coming in when things were already a mess and having to get things done fast and cheap then I'm sure to him it did feel abusive. The funny thing is he says Johns threatened to ruin his career when him making this big fuss about percieved mistreatment probably has ruined his career way more than anything Johns or Whedon could have ever done to him. This production was such a mess by the time Whedon and crew came on I'm sure tensions were running very high just to get this clusterfuck done.
    I think this is a definite possibility, though Momoa (a far more experienced actor) siding with Fisher makes me more inclined to believe that conditions could have gone beyond acceptable norms.

  14. #29
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    So...we're going from 'release the Snyder cut' to 'lock (Whedon) up', now?

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    I think this is a definite possibility, though Momoa (a far more experienced actor) siding with Fisher makes me more inclined to believe that conditions could have gone beyond acceptable norms.
    Very true, but I also think that the pressure to salvage this mess probably made things way more stressful than on a normal movie shoot too. I am thinking Whedon was under the gun from both the Studio and the Producers to just get this done as cheap and as fast as possible. With the amount of reshoots they are doing for the Snyder cut on HBO it does not sound like much was shot that was useable. That and the fact that the Snyder cut is something like 4 hours long which shows how out of control Snyder was in the first place.

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