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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    See, that's the key difference for me. Your boss has a duty, a responsibility to ensure that you are lawfully protected from abuse or discrimination. Your boss also has a clear amount of institutional power over you. Fisher has no control over what his coworkers do in their private lives, and while it would appear Miller's actions can't be justified by any kind of "playing around" excuse, he doesn't know for sure becuase the situation has nothing to do with him. It's unfair to browbeat someone who claims they suffered abuse for not calling out other instances of abuse that have nothing to do with them or aren't analogous situations. And if we're going to assume he can use his contacts to find out whether that woman received any kind of restitution, we must also assume that we don't know if Fisher knows that and keeps quiet on that basis. That's multiple layers of speculation.
    Fisher has shown so far he's acting without concern of what his bosses think when it comes to abuse, the others do the standard thing which is staying silent. Not that this is good, either, of course. Fisher has control over how he reacts to their allegations, and in some cases evidence, which both are in the public eye and he's chosen to do nothing. We don't know what Fisher thinks of Heard or Miller but we do know he's not making any waves about the abuse allegations when it comes to them and they're both work colleagues of his. High profile ones. Either abuse matters or it doesn't - and I'm getting mixed signals from Momoa and Fisher here. All I'm asking for is for Fisher to give a statement about what he thinks of the Miller situation about that fan, but even this is not something he will do. Not even a show of support like Momoa and the Iris actress did with him. Nothing. There are multiple layers but they're not all good for Fisher, which is a problem. Fisher doesn't have to personally be in the room when his co-workers abuse something, or have allegations to form an opinion about it. We have more proof about their abuse allegations than his. This is why it's hypocritical.

    As far as Fisher not giving details, I've already outlined the strategic reasons for it. I think it's weird that fans feel entitled to these details right away. Sure it's frustrating not to hear a concrete accusation, but this process has only just begun and any potential claims have to be preserved with accuracy, not blurted out.
    If #MeToo had done what's Fisher's doing it wouldn't have gotten the victories it had. He's not doing anything like what they did. Details must be given or they go nowhere. That's not entitlement it's so we know what he wants us to back him for. That's how these things work. Fisher hasn't got a preserved claim, he said abuse once in a statement with no context.This is the problem. He has no accuracy with his account. Except these sort of accusations being with the details, this isn't a court case at this stage, even public opinion requires some detail on what we're supposed to support.

  2. #62
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steel Inquisitor View Post
    Fisher has shown so far he's acting without concern of what his bosses think when it comes to abuse, the others do the standard thing which is staying silent. Not that this is good, either, of course. Fisher has control over how he reacts to their allegations, and in some cases evidence, which both are in the public eye and he's chosen to do nothing. We don't know what Fisher thinks of Heard or Miller but we do know he's not making any waves about the abuse allegations when it comes to them and they're both work colleagues of his. High profile ones. Either abuse matters or it doesn't - and I'm getting mixed signals from Momoa and Fisher here. All I'm asking for is for Fisher to give a statement about what he thinks of the Miller situation about that fan, but even this is not something he will do. Not even a show of support like Momoa and the Iris actress did with him. Nothing. There are multiple layers but they're not all good for Fisher, which is a problem. Fisher doesn't have to personally be in the room when his co-workers abuse something, or have allegations to form an opinion about it. We have more proof about their abuse allegations than his. This is why it's hypocritical.



    If #MeToo had done what's Fisher's doing it wouldn't have gotten the victories it had. He's not doing anything like what they did. Details must be given or they go nowhere. That's not entitlement it's so we know what he wants us to back him for. That's how these things work. Fisher hasn't got a preserved claim, he said abuse once in a statement with no context.This is the problem. He has no accuracy with his account. Except these sort of accusations being with the details, this isn't a court case at this stage, even public opinion requires some detail on what we're supposed to support.
    "Either abuse matters or it doesn't" - that's a fairly ridiculous burden to place on victims. "Either you call out every potential abuse you see or hear of, regardless of whether it has any proximity to you, regardless if you understand the full context, regardless of whether it impacts you, regardless of whether it's done in a workplace environment or in someone's personal life"... I mean it's just not realistic and an unfair burden to put on potential victims, I don't think you're going to convince me that's a reasonable expectation. Imagine asking a rape victim that came forward if they had friends who had been abused by someone, and that not saying anything about that abuse previously makes them a hypocrite who deserves skepticism.

    If you don't want to back Fisher for being as vague as he is right now, cool. That's reasonable. I too am curious about the concrete details. I'm not all over twitter supporting him, and this isn't any kind of #MeToo umbrella activist campaign. Fisher is asking fans to take his word that there that there was some form of mistreatment, but being vague and careful with his words while an investigation takes place and he continues to make demands of the company regarding this perceived mistreatment. "Preserving a claim" means making sure you can assert something later, so that is likely what he's doing. People on the sidelines screaming "just file a suit" aren't being realistic about how difficult and narrow that path is, theyre just impatient.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    How is it "easily invalidated"? The conflict of interest is pretty apparent. An internal investigation is different than an impartial workplace investigation, and Fisher claims the existing investigator has ignored/ghosted witnesses who gave "damning" statements to HR.
    I donít know what do you mean by ďconflict of interestĒ. You think WB and its parent company donít share the same interest?
    LOL Donít you think itís quite laughable that Fisher denounces the process of the investigation while he is the one who obstructs the investigation by evading the investigators?

  4. #64
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    NDAs do not cover illegal activities.
    As far as I know, Fisher isn't accusing anyone of anything illegal, just 'disgusting, abusive, and unprofessional behavior'

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Why is it out of the realm of possibility that he saw the unfinished version?
    That's exactly what he saw. Snyder showed that same cut to Jim Lee, Walter Hamada, and the other WB execs in order to get the greenlight to finish the effects

  6. #66
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    I don’t know what do you mean by “conflict of interest”. You think WB and its parent company don’t share the same interest?
    LOL Don’t you think it’s quite laughable that Fisher denounces the process of the investigation while he is the one who obstructs the investigation by evading the investigators?
    That's exactly why it's a conflict of interest - an impartial investigator has the same interests as one of the parties being investigated.

    I don't think it's laughable for him to refuse to cooperate (or at least be careful in what he discloses) with a biased investigator, if what he says about their refusal to engage key witnesses is true.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    I don’t know what do you mean by “conflict of interest”. You think WB and its parent company don’t share the same interest?
    LOL Don’t you think it’s quite laughable that Fisher denounces the process of the investigation while he is the one who obstructs the investigation by evading the investigators?
    We don't know that yet. From the email he provided, it appears that he wants a representative present during the interview, which is perfectly reasonable given the legal minefield he's wading through in regards to his NDA.

    A multinational corporation as large as this has so many moving parts, I don’t think it's a foregone conclusion that the independent investigator would necessarily be trying to cover up malfeasance on the part of another part of the company. It certainly happens a lot, but it’s not how it's supposed to work.

    According to Fisher, he tried taking his concerns through the proper channels and was shut down, so I can understand him being overly cautious here.

    If I was taking on a giant multinational corporation, I would be a little paranoid too

  8. #68

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    I have two thoughts right now. I think theres been enough of a fuss made that one way or another the other shoe will drop and it will likely be ugly for WB.
    On the other hand Peter Shinkoda, the guy who played Nobu on Daredevil had a lot more to actually say about how he was mistreated both finanically and with racially insensitive comments by Loeb, all without propping himself as the champion of accountability. Maybe circumstances are different, but just going by what we know.
    So i'm sure the truth comes out, but so far color me unimpressed by how Fisher is handling this.

  9. #69
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    I don't think Warner Media is very concerned about it, worse case scenario, they will fire a couple guys and be done with it. I mean, Walter Hamada wasn't even in charge of WB pictures at the time, Joss Wheadon have very little to do with WB, the only guys that can actually be fired are Johns and Berg, and I doubt it will happen.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    As far as I know, Fisher isn't accusing anyone of anything illegal, just 'disgusting, abusive, and unprofessional behavior'
    If it's not a legal issue, then Ray should tell us what happened in detail. If it's a legal issue, however, then he should go through the judicial process and stay out of the (dreaded) court of public opinion, IMO.
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  11. #71
    Fantastic Member Castling's Avatar
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    Frankly, I feel this seems to have all started over creative differences on a tense set that had to reshoot JL and get it in theaters in six months. I'm betting it was a Whedon vs Snyder set and ultimately, Whedon had to pull rank and get tough, especially with actors (Fisher and Momoa) who felt their characters were getting short changed.
    I think Fisher is upset he was forced to say "Booyah" and when he took it to Johns and Berg he was shut down.
    There's also the instance of Ray's favorite barber that he brought to the set that didn't get a film credit. I don’t know if you're allowed to bring someone on set without it being cleared.

    From all he's revealed, I'm just seeing cases of pettiness (all from Fisher's POV) and no real abuse. Granted, we've all had to deal with difficult bosses.
    I wonder how Fisher would fare on a Fincher/Tarantino/Cameron/Inarritu set. Those guys are infamously hard to deal with.

  12. #72

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    So not sure if this has been posted in the thread or not but here it is...

    https://comicbook.com/movies/news/ra...e-flash-cameo/

  13. #73
    Extraordinary Member Zero Hunter's Avatar
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    I think it is safe to say that going forward if we see Cyborg again he will not be played by Fisher after all this.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingaliencracker View Post
    So not sure if this has been posted in the thread or not but here it is...

    https://comicbook.com/movies/news/ra...e-flash-cameo/
    I definitely don't want to read too much into this, but given that the flash movie is suppose to suggest the possibility of the multiverse, perhaps the way the cameo was described to Fisher made it seem like the final nail in the coffin as far as Fisher's Cyborg getting his own solo movie, or even just getting future appearances in DC movies. The timing does seem suspect, but tbh it doesn't really change much about the situation. again, until such time as we know more about Fisher's accusations, its easy enough to chalk up his complaints to sour grapes over his version of Cyborg going from being "the heart' of the snyder film to probably the least compelling JL member, but i guess now with the additional angle that Ray just found out that cyborg wasn't coming back after the flash movie. I dunno, just my 2 cents. This mystery's got more layers than an onion lol

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castling View Post
    Frankly, I feel this seems to have all started over creative differences on a tense set that had to reshoot JL and get it in theaters in six months. I'm betting it was a Whedon vs Snyder set and ultimately, Whedon had to pull rank and get tough, especially with actors (Fisher and Momoa) who felt their characters were getting short changed.
    I think Fisher is upset he was forced to say "Booyah" and when he took it to Johns and Berg he was shut down.
    There's also the instance of Ray's favorite barber that he brought to the set that didn't get a film credit. I don’t know if you're allowed to bring someone on set without it being cleared.

    From all he's revealed, I'm just seeing cases of pettiness (all from Fisher's POV) and no real abuse. Granted, we've all had to deal with difficult bosses.
    I wonder how Fisher would fare on a Fincher/Tarantino/Cameron/Inarritu set. Those guys are infamously hard to deal with.
    Just speculation, but I theorize Fisher wanted to get rid of the faceplate or make some other creative change to Cyborg, which is why Johns, the Chief Creative Officer at the time, was involved. Apparently after Justice League filmed, Johns called Fisher to brag/gloat about the version of Cyborg on Doom Patrol. Fisher could've made the same argument that many of us on this board have-- that on a team of perfect people, the only disfigured and neutered body is the Black person's. And Johns could've responded that was a bunch of hoopla, later bragging that another black actor did not complain about the creative direction of the character (and forgetting the Doom Patrol is a team of freaks, not a bunch of paragons). Concept art released before the film indicates that downplaying or getting rid of the faceplate was at least considered at some point, but I could see Johns saying that Cyborg needs it to be recognizable as DC's Cyborg IP.





    Again, just speculation, but the pieces would line up. Add in reduced screen time for the non-white characters when Whedon takes over, and also add in the fact that the Cyborg film announcement just appeared to be a virtue signal signifying nothing, and voila-- it's a mess.

    Why would Johns call Fisher to gloat about Doom Patrol if Fisher was just complaining about screen time or the importance of his character in the DC universe?

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