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  1. #76
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    IMO, the concepts for Aquaman, Flash, and Cyborg above, all look better than what was actually chosen. Flash just needs proper lightning bolts like the CW version.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    That's exactly why it's a conflict of interest - an impartial investigator has the same interests as one of the parties being investigated.

    I don't think it's laughable for him to refuse to cooperate (or at least be careful in what he discloses) with a biased investigator, if what he says about their refusal to engage key witnesses is true.
    ItÂ’s even more laughable that Fisher refuses to comment on details of the case yet he pushes those key witnesses out.
    1) He is the one who called on WB to raise an investigation. They are following the regular procedures to reach him first instead of the key witness Fisher provides.
    2) He posted on Twitter that Warner Media raised an investigation in Aug 21st. Two days later he talked about the contact between him and investigators with his team at the first time. How did he decide the investigation as impartial in less than two days? How did he offer them the witness list before the investigators reach him?

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Just speculation, but I theorize Fisher wanted to get rid of the faceplate or make some other creative change to Cyborg, which is why Johns, the Chief Creative Officer at the time, was involved. Apparently after Justice League filmed, Johns called Fisher to brag/gloat about the version of Cyborg on Doom Patrol. Fisher could've made the same argument that many of us on this board have-- that on a team of perfect people, the only disfigured and neutered body is the Black person's. And Johns could've responded that was a bunch of hoopla, later bragging that another black actor did not complain about the creative direction of the character (and forgetting the Doom Patrol is a team of freaks, not a bunch of paragons). Concept art released before the film indicates that downplaying or getting rid of the faceplate was at least considered at some point, but I could see Johns saying that Cyborg needs it to be recognizable as DC's Cyborg IP.





    Again, just speculation, but the pieces would line up. Add in reduced screen time for the non-white characters when Whedon takes over, and also add in the fact that the Cyborg film announcement just appeared to be a virtue signal signifying nothing, and voila-- it's a mess.

    Why would Johns call Fisher to gloat about Doom Patrol if Fisher was just complaining about screen time or the importance of his character in the DC universe?
    The final design for Cyborg seems to have remained intact from Snyder's take.

    And to be honest I really have to side-eye that idea of Johns calling Fisher just to gloat about Doom Patrol.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    "Either abuse matters or it doesn't" - that's a fairly ridiculous burden to place on victims. "Either you call out every potential abuse you see or hear of, regardless of whether it has any proximity to you, regardless if you understand the full context, regardless of whether it impacts you, regardless of whether it's done in a workplace environment or in someone's personal life"... I mean it's just not realistic and an unfair burden to put on potential victims, I don't think you're going to convince me that's a reasonable expectation. Imagine asking a rape victim that came forward if they had friends who had been abused by someone, and that not saying anything about that abuse previously makes them a hypocrite who deserves skepticism.
    It's debatable Fisher is a victim, he never bought the receipts. Those two were in in his vicinity, both are cast members on Justice League - one of which is the lead in the next film Cyborg was supposed to be in. Nobody is saying he needs to go full court press on them but he won't say a single word one way or another, those abuse allegations don't exist in his public context. He risks nothing by saying anything on those incidents right now. That's not a good analogy for Fisher. Abuse thrives in Hollywood by not saying anything, this was what the #MeToo movement was about, it put sunlight on the problem which changed things.

    If you don't want to back Fisher for being as vague as he is right now, cool. That's reasonable. I too am curious about the concrete details. I'm not all over twitter supporting him, and this isn't any kind of #MeToo umbrella activist campaign. Fisher is asking fans to take his word that there that there was some form of mistreatment, but being vague and careful with his words while an investigation takes place and he continues to make demands of the company regarding this perceived mistreatment. "Preserving a claim" means making sure you can assert something later, so that is likely what he's doing. People on the sidelines screaming "just file a suit" aren't being realistic about how difficult and narrow that path is, theyre just impatient.
    It's not about an activist campaign #MeToo is doing, it's how they went about it in detail that is the process which works. The problem here is that if he wanted to take it legally and keep it quiet all he had to do was wait until he made everything ready then filing a suit. He could get online support after it was launched. But he blew his claim earlier by claiming Whedon abused him, it was just vague on details. He's been going after numerous managers at WB ever since online. We're growing impatient because he's not telling us anything substantial and is doing bizarre things rather than following standard procedure, he's just making it up as he goes along from what it looks like. It's not unreasonable to be skeptical over that.
    Last edited by Steel Inquisitor; 09-17-2020 at 05:06 PM.

  5. #80
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    Ray has requested a new investigator


  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The final design for Cyborg seems to have remained intact from Snyder's take.

    And to be honest I really have to side-eye that idea of Johns calling Fisher just to gloat about Doom Patrol.
    Quote Originally Posted by ScreenRant View Post
    Ray Fisher Accuses Geoff Johns of Gloating About Doom Patrol's Cyborg
    The DCEU's Cyborg, Ray Fisher, accuses former head of DC Entertainment Geoff Johns of gloating about the creation of a second Cyborg on Doom Patrol
    ...
    The DCEU's Cyborg actor, Ray Fisher, accuses former head of DC Entertainment Geoff Johns of gloating about the creation of a second Cyborg on Doom Patrol. Over the past two months, Fisher has been at the center of a growing story concerning the Justice League reshoots and the poor behavior that occurred behind the scenes. It began when Fisher accused Justice League reshoots director Joss Whedon of acting unprofessional on set, even to the point of calling Whedon "abusive." Fisher has also implicated Johns and producer Jon Berg in his accusations, and in July, he went so far as to say Whedon should be scared of his account of Justice League's reshoots.

    Things have escalated remarkably quickly over the past few days, starting with Fisher claiming current DC Films president Walter Hamada attempted to get him to hold back on including Johns, who currently has a hand in several DC projects, in his accusations. A day later, Warner Bros. issued a statement insisting Fisher has yet to cooperate with the investigation into the Justice League reshoots. Fisher didn't take long to fire back, providing evidence that he did in fact speak to the investigator, but refrained from saying too much because he felt the investigator wouldn't be impartial.

    Fisher has since expanded on his thoughts on the matter in a new Instagram Live video, where he also detailed more about Johns' behavior. Five minutes into the video, Fisher explains how, when Hamada expressed doubt about Johns' abusive behavior, Fisher pointed out that Hamada was not present when Johns "made the veiled threat to my career." Fisher goes on to say that in 2018, Johns contacted him "using backchannel communications to gloat that there'd be another Cyborg being used in the DC universe in a show that he was producing." The show he is referring to is the DC Universe series Doom Patrol, which features another Cyborg played by Jovian Wade. You can see Fisher's full video down below.

    Fisher has previously claimed Johns made threats about his career, so his story remains consistent. For his part, Johns has not spoken out about Fisher's accusations. As Fisher shared in the video, he intends to continue pursuing this investigation and won't be satisfied until he speaks to someone from Warner Media, not Warner Bros. Pictures. The only statement the studio has released was the one accusing Fisher of not cooperating, so it remains to be seen how they will respond to this new counterpoint from Fisher.

    Nevertheless, it's clear Fisher will not remain silent on the subject, even if it could end up impacting his DCEU future with the upcoming Flash movie or even a solo Cyborg project. While it's hard from an outsider's perspective to say exactly what's going on, Warner Bros.' actions do feel suspicious, especially since Fisher says he has real evidence of what he's trying to prove. When it comes to Johns, if Fisher's claims are true, then Warner Bros. needs to stop defending him and should instead find a positive way forward without this kind of behavior getting in the way.
    https://screenrant.com/ray-fisher-ge...-patrol-gloat/

    We have to remember that the complaints about Whedon and Johns are separate issues linked by the fact that these actions are tied to the same workplace and higher management.
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 09-17-2020 at 05:05 PM.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Just speculation, but I theorize Fisher wanted to get rid of the faceplate or make some other creative change to Cyborg, which is why Johns, the Chief Creative Officer at the time, was involved. Apparently after Justice League filmed, Johns called Fisher to brag/gloat about the version of Cyborg on Doom Patrol. Fisher could've made the same argument that many of us on this board have-- that on a team of perfect people, the only disfigured and neutered body is the Black person's. And Johns could've responded that was a bunch of hoopla, later bragging that another black actor did not complain about the creative direction of the character (and forgetting the Doom Patrol is a team of freaks, not a bunch of paragons). Concept art released before the film indicates that downplaying or getting rid of the faceplate was at least considered at some point, but I could see Johns saying that Cyborg needs it to be recognizable as DC's Cyborg IP.

    Again, just speculation, but the pieces would line up. Add in reduced screen time for the non-white characters when Whedon takes over, and also add in the fact that the Cyborg film announcement just appeared to be a virtue signal signifying nothing, and voila-- it's a mess.

    Why would Johns call Fisher to gloat about Doom Patrol if Fisher was just complaining about screen time or the importance of his character in the DC universe?
    If you watched Geoff Johns’ interviews a lot you would know he is naturally a big comic fanboy and he is always excited to include more characters in any project he is involved with. My speculation about what happened is Geoff might just tell him “Hey bro we have another Cyborg in DP. It’s like you have a multiverse brother. Don’t you think it’s so cool?” And Fisher goes ”f$&k”
    That can explain why Fisher considers Johns’ behavior as “gloating”.

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    https://screenrant.com/ray-fisher-ge...-patrol-gloat/

    We have to remember that the complaints about Whedon and Johns are separate issues linked by the fact that these actions are tied to the same workplace and higher management.
    I know what Fisher is saying, I'm just still finding it hard to imagine.

    I'm not denying it happened though, just seems really out there and kind random of all the allegations that have come out so far.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    If you watched Geoff Johns’ interviews a lot you would know he is naturally a big comic fanboy and he is always excited to include more characters in any project he is involved with. My speculation about what happened is Geoff might just tell him “Hey bro we have another Cyborg in DP. It’s like you have a multiverse brother. Don’t you think it’s so cool?” And Fisher goes ”f$&k”
    That can explain why Fisher considers Johns’ behavior as “gloating”.
    Said without sarcasm or some level of passive aggression, I can't see something along the lines of, "Don't you think it's so cool?" being taken as gloating. I don't see why two people who have creative differences and didn't get along would try to further communicate with each other anyway. Just sounds passive aggressive to me, but who knows?

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I know what Fisher is saying, I'm just still finding it hard to imagine.

    I'm not denying it happened though, just seems really out there and kind random of all the allegations that have come out so far.
    We don't have enough information to do more than speculate. Fisher might just be linking unrelated things through overall frustration, with his cast members just supporting his point on Whedon's direction.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Said without sarcasm or some level of passive aggression, I can't see something along the lines of, "Don't you think it's so cool?" being taken as gloating. I don't see why two people who have creative differences and didn't get along would try to further communicate with each other anyway. Just sounds passive aggressive to me, but who knows?
    That's part of why I'm giving it the side-eye. Just seems like a random thing to do.

  12. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by basbash99 View Post
    I definitely don't want to read too much into this, but given that the flash movie is suppose to suggest the possibility of the multiverse, perhaps the way the cameo was described to Fisher made it seem like the final nail in the coffin as far as Fisher's Cyborg getting his own solo movie, or even just getting future appearances in DC movies. The timing does seem suspect, but tbh it doesn't really change much about the situation. again, until such time as we know more about Fisher's accusations, its easy enough to chalk up his complaints to sour grapes over his version of Cyborg going from being "the heart' of the snyder film to probably the least compelling JL member, but i guess now with the additional angle that Ray just found out that cyborg wasn't coming back after the flash movie. I dunno, just my 2 cents. This mystery's got more layers than an onion lol
    I don't know if we can form any real sound opinion on the accusations because we really don't know what the accusations are. I can tell you from professional experience that people will lie about the most ridiculous things if there's an angle in it for them, but that same experience also tells me that people's accusations are sometimes ignored or dismissed even when they're true.

    Here's what I will say about it however...if the reason why we're not being given details by Fisher is because of legal reasons as some here have speculated, then he should stop airing this out on social media altogether. It's also in his best interest to cooperate with the internal investigation whether he has reservations about its objectiveness or not.

    I have no doubt the reshoots completed by Whedon were unpleasant for everyone involved. But there's also a difference between a bad work experience versus actual abuse, harassment, threats, etc. in the workplace. Right now we just don't have enough information, and until we do we're just going to speculate endlessly.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    That's part of why I'm giving it the side-eye. Just seems like a random thing to do.
    If Johns is the type of person to indirectly make a veiled threat at someone's career, he may also be passive aggressive. Who knows?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Said without sarcasm or some level of passive aggression, I can't see something along the lines of, "Don't you think it's so cool?" being taken as gloating. I don't see why two people who have creative differences and didn't get along would try to further communicate with each other anyway. Just sounds passive aggressive to me, but who knows?
    Fisher praised Whedon genuinely at the SDCC panel. Of course he took back those words lately. But you can tell from that Fisher wasn’t clashing with Whedon or Johns all the time. He obviously made a compromise sometime during the reshooting. So Johns might think despite the creative differences we had at first, “we’re good now”. After all, it’s a common thing that people have creative differences and they reach an agreement at last.

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAN9000 View Post
    If you watched Geoff Johns’ interviews a lot you would know he is naturally a big comic fanboy and he is always excited to include more characters in any project he is involved with. My speculation about what happened is Geoff might just tell him “Hey bro we have another Cyborg in DP. It’s like you have a multiverse brother. Don’t you think it’s so cool?” And Fisher goes ”f$&k”
    That can explain why Fisher considers Johns’ behavior as “gloating”.
    Well, Joivan Wade don't have any problems saying Booyah. Actually during the Doom Patrol Fandome panel, he started the whole thing with it.

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