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  1. #1546
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I don't think there's anything particularly damning for anyone here. Fisher clearly had some legitimate grievances, but he was also being overly sensitive, paranoid, and antagonistic. Now, given Hollywood's track record of sweeping dodgy shit under the carpet, some of that paranoia was no doubt justified, but it sounds like he was actively hurting his cause with the way he handed it and assuming racial animosity where there was none.

    Meanwhile, elements within Warners were quite obviously panicking and attempting to smear Fisher, which only made the situation worse and helped feed Fisher's paranoia.

    The only person who's come out of this with any clarity is Joss Whedon, who everyone seems to agree is a phenomenal asshole.
    Yeah, Whedon comes out looking bad yet again. I'm sure he'd continue to look bad if Gadot and Momoa ever decided to spill more from their side. Fisher was definitely haphazard with who he went after and how he characterized their role in the process as well. Though I don't think we can just shrug away the racial animus part; sometimes a decision can have unfortunate racial implications even if nobody involved is consciously bigoted. I think the fact that Ray was allowed so much input in the beginning and was then made to do a 180 on the character really soured his experience. I'm sure some would argue that he wasn't entitled to that kind of collaborative process, but I think anyone would feel hard done by.

  2. #1547
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    The Krpyton stuff sounds rather damning about Johns.

  3. #1548
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    I'm not seeing anything damning here regarding Hamada or Johns, so it's back to the drawing board for Ray.
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  4. #1549
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    The Krpyton stuff sounds rather damning about Johns.
    Yeah, that was a bit of new info and may point to something. Someone doesn't have to be a member of the KKK to be a little racially insensitive in certain contexts.

  5. #1550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Yeah, that was a bit of new info and may point to something. Someone doesn't have to be a member of the KKK to be a little racially insensitive in certain contexts.
    It does seem to come across that Johns doesn’t grasp that just because he’s not white himself that doesn’t mean he’s exempt

  6. #1551
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    And Johns handled it in about as idiotic a way as one could. Doubt he or Hamada will get fired over this though. If they fired Johns theyd also have to fire Hamada for protecting him, and WB wants to be done with the Snyder Era. Theyre relying on Hamada to be their head guy now.
    Yeah, demonstrating the Quasimodo thing was pretty dumb.
    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    Assuming the Trench got the axe more for Johns EP credit than alley Wan being preoccupied, Id say Johns pet projects (that dont turn a profit like Aquaman) will probably be quietly dropped.

    No one would deny Johnson a film, but Id wager the JSA characters drop off a cliff after the Black Adam film

    How does one fire a guy from an EP credit they probably had fixed in their contract?
    The only "pet project" I can think of that he's currently involved with is Stargirl, which I feel like you keep assuming is on its way to being canceled no matter how well season 2 does. Although he's also working on Titans and Doom Patrol, not sure about his status on the GL show.

    I doubt the JSA just get dropped after Black Adam when they're such a prominent part of the movie, depending on fan reception of them. I just don't see it working that way.
    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    The Krpyton stuff sounds rather damning about Johns.
    The Krypton stuff comes off to me like Johns' side as a fan on the creative side impacting his decisions on an executive level.

    Although if he objected to Adam Strange being gay or Bi (which, honestly, if Alanna isn't Adam Strange's most relevant relationship you're doing him wrong), did he have no input on Mr. Terrific being gay on Arrow?

  7. #1552
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Yeah, that was a bit of new info and may point to something. Someone doesn't have to be a member of the KKK to be a little racially insensitive in certain contexts.
    Assuming Johns actually said this, I would assume his concern was more about the brouhaha it would create in the media than anything else.
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  8. #1553
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Assuming Johns actually said this, I would assume his concern was more about the brouhaha it would create in the media than anything else.
    Or relative fidelity to the source material.

  9. #1554
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    The Krpyton stuff sounds rather damning about Johns.
    Which part in particular. We knew the issue with the black actress' haircut was related to continuity, and if I remember correctly, wasn't Krypton initially pitched to serve as a type of quasi-prequel to Man of Steel? If that was the initial pitch, then it made sense for Johns to think Seg-El should look like a young Henry Cavill. Now, some of the predictable defense like Geoff being Lebanese-American who knows about racial stereotypes, has been married to 2 women of color and has a son who's mixed-race, does sound kind of desperate, but I don't find anything particularly damning about this. If anything, I'm surprised that Johns finally said something about all of this, which I imagine is the only thing we'd ever hear from him. And think about it, if they do end up firing him, then what was the point of him responding to so many of the claims in this article. Whedon never responded to any of the allegations, except the one about changing the color of the black characters. If WB does fire Johns, they would look even worse now because they would practically confirm Fisher's accusations that Hamada indeed threw Whedon under the bus to protect him.
    Last edited by Johnny; 04-06-2021 at 09:38 AM.

  10. #1555
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    The only "pet project" I can think of that he's currently involved with is Stargirl, which I feel like you keep assuming is on its way to being canceled no matter how well season 2 does.
    If Batwoman is still around, then Stargirl has zero chance of being cancelled.
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  11. #1556
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
    Which part in particular. We knew the issue with the black actress' haircut was related to continuity, and if I remember correctly, wasn't Krypton initially conceived as a prequel to Man of Steel? If that was the initial pitch, then it made sense for for Johns to think Seg-El should look like a young Henry Cavill. Now, some of the usual defense like "Geoff is Lebanese-American who knows about racial stereotypes, has been married to 2 women of color and has a son who's mixed-race" does sound kind of desperate, but I don't find anything particularly damning about this. If anything, I'm surprised that Johns finally said something about all of this, which I imagine is the only thing we'd ever hear from him. And think about it, if they do end up firing him, then what was the point of him even responding to so many of the claims in this article. Whedon never responded to any of the allegations, except the one about changing the colors of the black characters. If WB does fire Johns, they would look even worse because they would practically confirm Fisher's accusations that Hamada and other higher-ups indeed threw Whedon under the bus to protect him.
    I didn't know he was married twice .

  12. #1557
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Assuming Johns actually said this, I would assume his concern was more about the brouhaha it would create in the media than anything else.
    Possible, it just seems pretty tone-deaf to respond categorically "it's not" when someone black says constant hair-changes are a naturally black thing.

  13. #1558
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Or relative fidelity to the source material.
    That, too, though some of the things he has worked on have strayed from the comics on quite a few occasions.
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  14. #1559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Possible, it just seems pretty tone-deaf to respond categorically "it's not" when someone black says constant hair-changes are a naturally black thing.
    I was talking about Superman having a black grandfather. The hair thing is silly, but it's not something to be fired over, IMO.
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  15. #1560
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    So is the worst thing Geoff did something that happened with the krypton show? Why did fisher keep acting like it was something more?

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