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  1. #1561
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    I was talking about Superman having a black grandfather. The hair thing is silly, but it's not something to be fired over, IMO.
    The grandfather thing makes sense. And I'm not saying Johns should be fired, and I don't even think Ray is either.

  2. #1562
    Extraordinary Member Johnny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    So is the worst thing Geoff did something that happened with the krypton show? Why did fisher keep acting like it was something more?
    I thought the part about Johns "threatening" him would've been the most damning thing, since Fisher has already talked about that before anyway, but even the article makes it sound like it's open to interpretation. Personally, I doubt that Johns was showing any legitimate concern about "not wanting Ray to make a bad name for himself in the business", but the fact that the comment doesn't instantly sound like an actual threat makes it seem far less damning than I expected it to be.

  3. #1563
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    So is the worst thing Geoff did something that happened with the krypton show? Why did fisher keep acting like it was something more?
    That's the most explicitly racial thing. Ray's principal complaints are that Johns

    1. Told Ray to play the character like Quasimodo
    2. Said in conversation with others that an "angry black man" can't be at the center of the movie
    3. Told Ray that his agent contacting the studio head was improper and that he should be careful, which Ray perceived as a threat

  4. #1564
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    My own personal opinion. I do think it’s clear joss whedon does deserve a lot of blame and a lot worse should have happened to his career based on thins beyond just justice league. Also, Geoff johns clearly got a bit too comfortable with his exec powers, I don’t think any of that is him being racist though. It’s for the best he’s only working as a writer now. Still don’t think Hamada actually did anything wrong

  5. #1565
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I mean, if a guy that you don't get along with says that you should be careful about your complaining then how else are you supposed to take it? It doesn't mean that Geoff wanted to threaten him, but from Ray's perspective it looks like a normal assumption.

  6. #1566
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    https://mobile.twitter.com/ray8fishe...74602448056326

    It would appear Johns defence of “continuity” has triggered Fisher’s trap card

  7. #1567
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I'm against race bending in general, but yeah, you can't claim "continuity" for one character, while changing others.

  8. #1568
    Astonishing Member kurenai24's Avatar
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    Whedon continues to look bad, more doesn't need to be said.

    It always looked like Ray Fisher was saying John's was passive/enabled the situation with Whedon instead of actually being the middle man/mediator/overseer or whatever his title was, so it never looked that bad for him, what does look bad tho is his reps saying that he's Lebanese-American, or that he loved/wrote Cyborg, that he married a black woman, and now an asian one, and that he has a mixed-race son, so obviously he can't be anything he's being accused of, even though Ray never hinted at what they're implying, outside of the above, Ray was also saying that John's was overstepping and that's it, but the way twitter is reacting to his Johns reps statement lol.

    Hamada, this is a tough one, Hamada didn't necessarily do anything (wrong), but he didn't do anything (right) which is also the problem, this is all happening and nothing was done, he obviously heard about the hostile workplace and yet he didn't attempt to reach out to the actors, apologize on behalf of the company, nada, just wanted to put it behind him. Hamada seems very passive or at the very least, he's in his position to care and focus only on the bottom line.

  9. #1569
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Hamada probably thought that everyone will forget about it two weeks later.

  10. #1570
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    And all things considered, what did DC have to lose going with the things Johns rejected

    You don’t put a show on SyFy with an expectation of a long life to begin with, it had stopped being an MOS prequel some time before and it was doomed from the moment the pilot started recording. It would have been better to be radical and fail then be a CW knockoff and fail

    Berlanti’s adaptations (DC and otherwise) get stick, but no one can deny he’s at least willing to give the appearance of pushing the envelope, even of only superficially

  11. #1571
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    I didn't assume it was meant to be strict "continuity" in the sense of MoS, at least directly. Just more from an overall franchise visual standpoint.

    "The Zods being black on Krypton, the Zods typically being bad guys and all this new info from the article really makes you wonder" - The Zods were kind of messed up on the show, but Zod himself was really the only villainous one of the family on the show.
    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    And all things considered, what did DC have to lose going with the things Johns rejected

    You donít put a show on SyFy with an expectation of a long life to begin with, it had stopped being an MOS prequel some time before and it was doomed from the moment the pilot started recording. It would have been better to be radical and fail then be a CW knockoff and fail

    Berlantiís adaptations (DC and otherwise) get stick, but no one can deny heís at least willing to give the appearance of pushing the envelope, even of only superficially
    Well, it got two seasons, so I wouldn't say it was doomed since it did get renewed.

  12. #1572
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    The grandfather thing makes sense. And I'm not saying Johns should be fired, and I don't even think Ray is either.
    Cool. Then we are in complete agreement.
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  13. #1573
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    You need to link the article when talking about stuff like that: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fe...for-leadership
    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    So my main understanding is Fisher and Johns just had a difference of opinion on Cyborg's characterization and how he should be depicted.

    Basically the NTT versus the TT cartoon portrayal.
    Eh, I think each individual thing in isolation can be reasonably deemed a creative difference, taken all together though and it becomes a death by a thousand papercuts where Johns comes off looking ignorant. We even got an elevated form of the "I have a black friend" defense in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    And both Hamada and Johns were concerned about Fisher's future career in Hollywood knowing how they treat even the most vindicated of whistleblowers.
    Lol ok.

  14. #1574
    Incredible Member Goldrake's Avatar
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    So what is this big sin of Johns?

    Because he advised Ray to talk with Whedon when he is in a good mood? It happens to millions each day when someone tells them that the boss is not in a good mood? So is my boss secretary an enabler when she tells me not to talk to the boss when he is pissed?

    That he wanted the catch phrase Booyah? with all respects to Ray he doesn't know a thing about these characters black or white!

    That he was perceived that he was threatening him? I expected to read the words "You will never work again in Hollywood" instead it sounded more like an advise not to get a bad reputation.

    Honestly it sounds more like personal assumptions with no basis at all. Different views on issues on which Johns is an authority while Ray probably never even knew who Cyborg was before he was casted for the role.

  15. #1575
    DC Comics Forum Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I'm against race bending in general, but yeah, you can't claim "continuity" for one character, while changing others.
    Except some characters are iconic and/or popular enough to create a media meltdown regarding a change, while others wouldn't register any type of uproar whatsoever.
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