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  1. #1636
    Mighty Member Ra-El's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Agreed. Dan Harmon's handling of his own past mistakes is the best example of how to handle something like this. You don't dig in, you stop and listen, and try to re-evaluate your own actions, then you try to make them right. For his part, it sounds like Berg has done that. Given how viciously Fisher's attacked Johns publicly, I can understand why John isn't really ready to be quite so conciliatory, but I think it would honestly be the best choice for him. He should call up Fisher and simple talk and listen to what the man has to say and apologize for any offence he may have given, whether intentional or not. If Fisher's gracious enough, perhaps he'll begin to understand Johns' perspective more, too. Throwing bombs at each other through Twitter and PR teams is certainly not the way to solve this.
    Probably the worst thing he can do, at best Fisher will go public saying Geoff Johns is scared and trying to save his career, at worst Fisher go public saying Johns is trying to manipute him.
    Also, after WarnerMedia more or less come forward saying they found no wrong doing from Johns, he calling their accuser to apologize is basically a admition of guilt and that the company lied.

  2. #1637
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Was the show guaranteed two season to begin with? Did I misunderstand it as being remotely popular?
    If I'm remembering correctly, the drop off in viewership after the first episode was massive, but Sci-Fi stuck with it based upon the false impression that the show would eventually gain an audience over time and that they could revamp the show by introducing Lobo in the second season. When that failed, they pulled the plug.

    To be fair, a lot of these shows do tend to build over time, particularly genre shows. Game of Thrones built its audience over time, as did Battlestar Galactica. Star Trek Discovery is another great example of a genre show that had a bumpy first season, but managed to work out enough of the kinks in the subsequent seasons that its now viewed as largely successful (despite what parts of the internet may say). The same could have been true of Krypton, but I think the characters just weren't compelling enough to anyone who wasn't already fully-immersed in loving the Superman mythos.

    I watched it with my wife, who tuned out after the first twenty minutes, whereas I gave up after the second episode. Had they started with the Zod twist, I might have stuck around, but I wasn't interested in slogging through a whole season of a show to get to the good stuff when there wasn't a single character I had any interest with. Even if they had found some incredibly charismatic black actor to play Superman's grandfather, I seriously doubt that would have saved the show from being the forgettable sci-fi GoT rehash it felt like from the get-go.

  3. #1638

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    Two thoughts:
    One: There seems to be enough to conclude that Fisher was screwed over. He is justifiably upset, and I can appreciate how he stood up for what he felt was right.

    Two: I would never, ever want to work with him under any circumstances or even be in the same room as this guy. lol, don't know what that says about me. I like to see myself as woke as the next guy, but nope would not risk it.

  4. #1639
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ra-El View Post
    Probably the worst thing he can do, at best Fisher will go public saying Geoff Johns is scared and trying to save his career, at worst Fisher go public saying Johns is trying to manipute him.
    Also, after WarnerMedia more or less come forward saying they found no wrong doing from Johns, he calling their accuser to apologize is basically a admition of guilt and that the company lied.
    From a corporate and legal perspective, you're probably right, but from a human perspective, it's absolutely what Johns should do because it's what Superman would do and Johns, of all people, should know that. If Fisher rebuffs him and tries to capitalize on his attempts at reconciliation, that's his choice, but Johns should own up to any offence he may have given, however unintentional, because that's simply how a decent person should comport themselves.

    We all make mistakes and we all end up saying or doing things we wished he hadn't or were taken badly. That's simply being human. We shouldn't allow our egos to make us so defensive that we refuse to make up for those mistakes.

  5. #1640
    Amazing Member BlueRuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    Yeah I don't think this really the takeaway, lol.
    Please see here. Fisher's carefully coordinated media blitz does him no credit. When nothing else worked, he resorted to attacking good faith actors, like the external investigator who he previously touted as a supporter of his claims, because her investigation didn't reach the conclusion he hoped for. As a result, he has damaged his own reputation in a way that is probably irretrievable.

    Fisher is going to be blackballed in the film industry, and rightly so. His interview with the Hollywood Reporter showed there was no smoking gun, and there never was one.
    Last edited by BlueRuggo; 04-06-2021 at 07:02 PM.

  6. #1641
    Amazing Member BlueRuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OpaqueGiraffe17 View Post
    Two thoughts:
    One: There seems to be enough to conclude that Fisher was screwed over.
    Screwed over how? He did a job and got paid. Most people don't get to tell their bosses how to roll out new projects or define their own job role. Fisher is privileged, entitled, and out of touch.

  7. #1642
    Amazing Member BlueRuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nite-Wing View Post
    Johns in his infinite power as DC CCO said that Superman couldn't have a black grandfather because reasons(mostly being continuity apparently which is ridic) but then the show Krypton proceeded to cast a black general zod making his statements facetious and a lie
    Its stuff like that which make it incredibly hard for someone auditioning for a role on a TV show not to think he just didn't want a black lead on krypton
    Now said actor is in a highly coveted position in Hollywood and likely to be the next Black Panther. You can't make for a bigger mess

    He deserves his dragging on social media for that and the terrible PR campaign relying on hiding behind POC's

    Everything else regarding Ray Fisher is just not as bad as what whedon has done imo
    It is hilarious to see how Ray Fisher who is supposed to have no career and be blackballed is continuing to keep this story out there and allow it to keep snowballing into something even bigger

    Methinks maybe if they had just tried to squash the beef with him all of this could have been avoided
    Anyone who has any semblance of media literacy knows that what you are saying is bullpucky.

    Fisher hasn't succeeded in "keeping it snowballing into something bigger." The so-called scandal in question has remained mostly irrelevant and has had no long term impact on anybody. It was propagated by Fisher's cryptic tweets that provided no details but had the promise of leading up to some great exposť which didn't happen. Fisher took many pains to lead up to this "tell-all" interview with the Hollywood reporter, but it fell flat and now Fisher has nothing else. We already knew Whedon was bad news, and the likeliest conclusion is that Fisher's allegations against Johns were nonsense. Rather than everyone else being the problem, Fisher was just toxic and difficult to work with. And now most people know it.
    Last edited by BlueRuggo; 04-06-2021 at 07:16 PM.

  8. #1643
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    From a corporate and legal perspective, you're probably right, but from a human perspective, it's absolutely what Johns should do because it's what Superman would do and Johns, of all people, should know that. If Fisher rebuffs him and tries to capitalize on his attempts at reconciliation, that's his choice, but Johns should own up to any offence he may have given, however unintentional, because that's simply how a decent person should comport themselves.

    We all make mistakes and we all end up saying or doing things we wished he hadn't or were taken badly. That's simply being human. We shouldn't allow our egos to make us so defensive that we refuse to make up for those mistakes.
    He could also just release a brief statement.

    "A lot has been said over the past year regarding the 2017 Justice League reshoots. Believe me, it was a difficult time for all involved. While I don't agree with everything that's been said of me in particular, I wanted to publicly apologize to Ray Fisher for anything I said or did that made him feel stepped-on or devalued. I approached every conversation we had on set with the desire to make the fans happy while still doing the job I was tasked with. Although Ray and I had disagreements on the role of Cyborg, I never meant for him to feel targeted or mistreated. Ray, I wish you all the best."

    Ray might still interpret that as a PR move, but he'd almost surely temper his tune a bit, and Johns would have won back a lot of good faith from fans.

  9. #1644
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRuggo View Post
    Please see here. Fisher's carefully coordinated media blitz does him no credit. When nothing else worked, he resorted to attacking good faith actors, like the external investigator who he previously touted as a supporter of his claims, because her investigation didn't reach the conclusion he hoped for. As a result, he has damaged his own reputation in a way that is probably irretrievable.

    Fisher is going to be blackballed in the film industry, and rightly so. His interview with the Hollywood Reporter showed there was no smoking gun, and there never was one.
    I've seen that post already. There's nothing difficult to believe about what Ray is saying. Even if he approached it inappropriately, I think your reaction is uncharitable and biased.

  10. #1645
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    He could also just release a brief statement.

    "A lot has been said over the past year regarding the 2017 Justice League reshoots. Believe me, it was a difficult time for all involved. While I don't agree with everything that's been said of me in particular, I wanted to publicly apologize to Ray Fisher for anything I said or did that made him feel stepped-on or devalued. I approached every conversation we had on set with the desire to make the fans happy while still doing the job I was tasked with. Although Ray and I had disagreements on the role of Cyborg, I never meant for him to feel targeted or mistreated. Ray, I wish you all the best."

    Ray might still interpret that as a PR move, but he'd almost surely temper his tune a bit, and Johns would have won back a lot of good faith from fans.
    Absolutely. If people in Hollywood stopped listening to these PR sociopaths and started acting like fallible human beings then these problems would get solved so much easier. Unfortunately, Hollywood's reputation for protecting the powerful and silencing those under them has only made this situation worse.

  11. #1646
    Amazing Member BlueRuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightning Rider View Post
    He could also just release a brief statement.

    "A lot has been said over the past year regarding the 2017 Justice League reshoots. Believe me, it was a difficult time for all involved. While I don't agree with everything that's been said of me in particular, I wanted to publicly apologize to Ray Fisher for anything I said or did that made him feel stepped-on or devalued. I approached every conversation we had on set with the desire to make the fans happy while still doing the job I was tasked with. Although Ray and I had disagreements on the role of Cyborg, I never meant for him to feel targeted or mistreated. Ray, I wish you all the best."

    Ray might still interpret that as a PR move, but he'd almost surely temper his tune a bit, and Johns would have won back a lot of good faith from fans.
    Absolutely not. I'd wager Fisher has suffered more career damage than Johns at this point.

    Secondly, Johns shouldn't even dignify this nonsense with a public apology, and an apology will not quell Fisher's inner seething. Likely, Fisher will just weaponize any apology against Johns in a disgusting fashion, just like he did with the testimony of that external investigator who tried to help him and who he later threw under the bus.

    Methinks it's time Ray face his own inner demons. He comes across as racially insecure and entitled.
    Last edited by BlueRuggo; 04-06-2021 at 07:38 PM.

  12. #1647
    Incredible Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    For the most part, I am team Ray but the Geoff stuff has never come across THAT big for me, even the Krypton "his grandfather cant be black" isn't something that bothers me. But he just comes across as your normal ignorant white guy who thinks they know better.

  13. #1648
    Amazing Member BlueRuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    For the most part, I am team Ray but the Geoff stuff has never come across THAT big for me, even the Krypton "his grandfather cant be black" isn't something that bothers me. But he just comes across as your normal ignorant white guy who thinks they know better.
    Based on what evidence?

  14. #1649
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRuggo View Post
    Methinks it's time Ray face his own inner demons. He comes across as racially insecure and entitled.
    I hesitate to ask, but what does "racially insecure" mean, exactly?

  15. #1650
    Amazing Member BlueRuggo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thezmage View Post
    I hesitate to ask, but what does "racially insecure" mean, exactly?
    Some people see the devil everywhere they turn because they expect to see it, not because it is there.

    And yes, some people are ashamed of their race and take it out on others. Does this ring any bells?

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