Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Bored at 3:00AM]

It\s hard to know what either side is thinking at this point, IMO.

Oh, absolutely. That's part of what makes this whole fiasco so fun to watch. Unlike with the Weinstein and Spacey scandals, wherein actual crimes were committed, this one is dealing with levels of bad behavior and assholery that make it a joy to see the twists and turns unfold and the worst that can happen is that someone won't get paid millions of dollars to make largely juvenile entertainment anymore

[Steel Inquisitor]

BINGO!

If Whedon, Berg, and Johns had indeed conducted themselves in a way that should be expected from directors and producers today, then they should have nothing to fear...but they didn't, so they don't want anybody looking too closely at what occurred. With the current set-up, they can let Fisher tweet himself into a corner, because he can't say anything specific without breaking that NDA, which means that few people will ever believe him.

That said, if Whedon, Berg, or Johns does take legal action against Fisher, which they absolutely should if he's actually been lying about them, then I'll be the first to warm up the popcorn

Or maybe Fisher is crying wolf because that's how he'd acted though this mess from the start and the NDA's are just an excuse. They don't need to fear Fisher to not do anything, them staying quiet doesn't disprove anything it helps them whether they're innocent or guilty. And they know all they have to do is Fisher to say something foolish and they get to keep their credibility because that's all it takes to defang Fisher. What's irritating is how Fisher does bring up good points about abuse and toxic work environments in Hollywood, and there is smoke with the Justice League set, except Fisher himself hasn't proven himself to be trustworthy. Even his biggest supporters won't back him up when it's needed, it's questionable that they are even on the same page as what happen during the shoot. And nobody's talking. Another issue is that if Fishsr is lying they may think it's better to use their time waiting for the heat to die down and move on rather than enflame the situation since a lawsuit would give Fisher more to work with to stay relevant. He's a little fish, they can wait a few years before coming back. Fisher's going to have bigger problems rebuilding his career.

Like with Johns, only time will tell if Fisher's accusations have actually stuck with Whedon. Currently, he's stepped down from his HBO show and has nothing on his plate. Once the plague of Covid-19 lifts, we'll see if Whedon suddenly starts getting work in Hollywood again. With Johns, it's going to take much longer because he already had a bunch of projects in the works that Warner Bros. wouldn't be inclined to remove him from because of the financial and legal complications it would unleash.

We'll need to know what those accusations first, and he's not telling. That's been a big problem with his credibility.

I think everyone is perfectly satisfied to let Fisher twist in the wind, waiting to see if he ever gets frustrated enough to break his NDA, at which point they can sue him into oblivion, optics be damned, because nobody in Hollywood wants the power of the NDA to be diminished. There are too many skeletons in too many closets in Hollywood and the biggest obstacle to them ever being made public is the threat of legal action.

Twisting in the wind implied he ever made a good case for what happened. All we know is something bad happened and what did leak was pettiness and not understanding how color grading works. Fisher could explain what subjects he thinks might break the NDA in clearers detail but he doesn't do this. But does Fisher know any of those skeletons? If he did he'd have leaked them by now, it's telling that he hasn't.

Yup, in Hollywood, if you are a success, you'll keep getting work no matter how much of an ******* you are. Look at James Cameron. But, if you fail, you'll never work on the big budget high profile projects again. At best, you'll be exiled to small potatoes like the CW, but only if you promise the corporate bean counters you'll stay out of trouble and keep your name out the headlines.

Sooner or later, the day will come when James Cameron will fail spectacularly and the knives will come out for him. Not that I think that's going to happen anytime soon. People have been betting against Cameron for decades now and he keeps ducking the executioner's axe.

What Cameron does isn't a secret, he's in no danger.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

What Cameron does isn't a secret, he's in no danger.

I think the real danger with Cameron is that he's made so many enemies over the years who have been waiting for him to finally fail big so they can hit him while he's down, but he keeps succeeded. You never know, Avatar 2 and 3 may end up proving them all wrong again and he'll outlast them all.

As for Fisher, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I do not think it's a smart move to let someone repeatedly lie about me online, particularly when that person asks me to sue them if they're lying. To my knowledge, the only time Whedon chimed in to correct any falsehoods was when Fisher erroneously claimed that they'd altered the skin tone of the black actors. If I wasn't being an ******* on set, I would have called his bluff. Otherwise, you are emboldening the next actor to pull the exact same stunt and it'll happen again and again over any perceived slight.

No matter how you or I feel about this fiasco, whatever happened on that set did indeed require investigating and it turned up something substantial enough that Warner Bros. doesn't want to talk about it.

Whether or not you want to connect the dots with Whedon's departure, or Mamoa & Gadot's comments, is completely up to you. I think we all agree that there was plenty of smoke coming out of the Justice League set, the only sticking point is how big of a fire was making that fire.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I think the real danger with Cameron is that he's made so many enemies over the years who have been waiting for him to finally fail big so they can hit him while he's down, but he keeps succeeded. You never know, Avatar 2 and 3 may end up proving them all wrong again and he'll outlast them all.

The only danger is if the complaint does enough damage to hurt him, and him making hits won't help him but so far, nothing. Singer was Hollywood's golden boy for years, and he has made far more mistakes then Cameron ever has. That's he's persona non grata right now and Cameron remains the king of the world.

As for Fisher, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I do not think it's a smart move to let someone repeatedly lie about me online, particularly when that person asks me to sue them if they're lying. To my knowledge, the only time Whedon chimed in to correct any falsehoods was when Fisher erroneously claimed that they'd altered the skin tone of the black actors. If I wasn't being an ******* on set, I would have called his bluff. Otherwise, you are emboldening the next actor to pull the exact same stunt and it'll happen again and again over any perceived slight.

It's been paying off for Whedon, the worst thing is he'll be in movie jail for a few years maybe then he'll be able to come back good as new. Fisher's in a much worse situation than he is. Johns, Berg and Hamada weren't really hurt by this and it's not like they've spent much time saying Fisher is a liar. It'll blow over for them. Whedon's silence and that comment hurt Fisher than the opposite. Being silent is less harmful when the other person refuses to back up claims with receipts. If Fisher had receipts this'd be a different story but he doesn't. This isn't about being an ******* on set, that's not really that damning for a director in Hollywood. Fisher bet on his empty claims being sufficient enough to destroy his opponents careers permanently and his actions might have saved him if he was made to be a savior to the public he thinks he is, which failed miserably. Fisher would be open to being "troublesome" by studios as is, it's worse when it looks like he'll make up claims of abuse to satisfy a seperate vendetta and that he'll call a director racist over a misunderstanding of how cameras work. Sometimes not doing anything is the correct answer, Fisher relies on being relevant to the media and I think the studios and his targets realise that so they're not taking his bait. Which is paying off because if he had something Fisher would be using that by now.

No matter how you or I feel about this fiasco, whatever happened on that set did indeed require investigating and it turned up something substantial enough that Warner Bros. doesn't want to talk about it.

That's not in question, the question is about the severity and Fisher relies on his "claims" being correct because now he's just a boy crying wolf. This being a standard toxic workplace issue rather than Fisher bravely taking down the titans of industry hurts him in this conflict. The latter being true would make him a hero in the industry, instead he's becoming someone studios won't touch over regular things people go through. It also sends a discouraging message to those who do want to follow in his footsteps.

Whether or not you want to connect the dots with Whedon's departure, or Mamoa & Gadot's comments, is completely up to you. I think we all agree that there was plenty of smoke coming out of the Justice League set, the only sticking point is how big of a fire was making that fire.

I connect dots that Fisher's giving me and they're found wanting. The smoke we've seen point to Fisher overreacting, therefore it's not the "fire" he thinks it is. The problem isn't the smoke from the Justice League set, it's how big the "fire" is and Fisher's done a terrible job convincing us it was as bad as he wants to believe. He doesn't get to omit details and expect us to take his word as fact, I take facts as facts. I'm so disappointed in him. This isn't a subject to just be ok with missing gaps that's a big red flag that something's not adding up. Hollywood's topic work environments won't be fixed by outbursts like this, instead it'll hurt their credibility coming forward. For absolutely nothing. The studios bosses must love this after Weinstein.

What's puzzling is that Fisher's reactions are more like someone who Justice League was their first role ever, because there are toxic work environments in theatre, and that he's never seen people successfully take down abusive bosses in Hollywood so he's just making things up as he goes along. Which makes things even more difficult to gage him being truthful. Because everyone else is doing the regular reactions you expect from situations like this. Gadot, Momoa, Whedon, Berg and whoever else.

[Goldrake]

The only danger is if the complaint does enough damage to hurt him, and him making hits won't help him but so far, nothing. Singer was Hollywood's golden boy for years, and he has made far more mistakes then Cameron ever has. That's he's persona non grata right now and Cameron remains the king of the world.


It's been paying off for Whedon, the worst thing is he'll be in movie jail for a few years maybe then he'll be able to come back good as new. Fisher's in a much worse situation than he is. Johns, Berg and Hamada weren't really hurt by this and it's not like they've spent much time saying Fisher is a liar. It'll blow over for them. Whedon's silence and that comment hurt Fisher than the opposite. Being silent is less harmful when the other person refuses to back up claims with receipts. If Fisher had receipts this'd be a different story but he doesn't. This isn't about being an ******* on set, that's not really that damning for a director in Hollywood. Fisher bet on his empty claims being sufficient enough to destroy his opponents careers permanently and his actions might have saved him if he was made to be a savior to the public he thinks he is, which failed miserably. Fisher would be open to being "troublesome" by studios as is, it's worse when it looks like he'll make up claims of abuse to satisfy a seperate vendetta and that he'll call a director racist over a misunderstanding of how cameras work. Sometimes not doing anything is the correct answer, Fisher relies on being relevant to the media and I think the studios and his targets realise that so they're not taking his bait. Which is paying off because if he had something Fisher would be using that by now.



That's not in question, the question is about the severity and Fisher relies on his "claims" being correct because now he's just a boy crying wolf. This being a standard toxic workplace issue rather than Fisher bravely taking down the titans of industry hurts him in this conflict. The latter being true would make him a hero in the industry, instead he's becoming someone studios won't touch over regular things people go through. It also sends a discouraging message to those who do want to follow in his footsteps.



I connect dots that Fisher's giving me and they're found wanting. The smoke we've seen point to Fisher overreacting, therefore it's not the "fire" he thinks it is. The problem isn't the smoke from the Justice League set, it's how big the "fire" is and Fisher's done a terrible job convincing us it was as bad as he wants to believe. He doesn't get to omit details and expect us to take his word as fact, I take facts as facts. I'm so disappointed in him. This isn't a subject to just be ok with missing gaps that's a big red flag that something's not adding up. Hollywood's topic work environments won't be fixed by outbursts like this, instead it'll hurt their credibility coming forward. For absolutely nothing. The studios bosses must love this after Weinstein.

What's puzzling is that Fisher's reactions are more like someone who Justice League was their first role ever, because there are toxic work environments in theatre, and that he's never seen people successfully take down abusive bosses in Hollywood so he's just making things up as he goes along. Which makes things even more difficult to gage him being truthful. Because everyone else is doing the regular reactions you expect from situations like this. Gadot, Momoa, Whedon, Berg and whoever else.

Agreed, fisher's problem is his credibility and he doesn't give specifics of the abuse he claims he was victim of. He also changes version of the vague accusations he made. He initially said that Johns threatened his career(what career?) months later that he was a blatant racist. At the end of the day only the snyder cult is supporting him and fisher points fingers strangely enough on people who are seen as enemies by the cult!!!!!!!!

[phantom1592]

As for Fisher, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I do not think it's a smart move to let someone repeatedly lie about me online, particularly when that person asks me to sue them if they're lying. To my knowledge, the only time Whedon chimed in to correct any falsehoods was when Fisher erroneously claimed that they'd altered the skin tone of the black actors. If I wasn't being an ******* on set, I would have called his bluff. Otherwise, you are emboldening the next actor to pull the exact same stunt and it'll happen again and again over any perceived slight.

Honestly, in the world we live in today... it probably is best to shut up, keep your head down and hope the world ignores him. I am really drawing a blank now in ANY kind of slander case going from Michael Jackson to Bill Cosby to Johnny Depp to anything involving #metoo where some little guy makes an accusation and regardless of any court or evidence or anything the general public doesn't automatically assume that David is telling the truth and Goliath is a rich and powerful establishment trying to bury the truth. There really isn't much advantange to standing up in front of the world and saying "I'm not a racist!! or I'm not a jerk!!" because then you need to prove it. Instead of the accuser having to have the actual evidence.

So yeah, whether it's true or not... I'm sure all their lawyers are telling them to shut up and stay off twitter. Let the company deal with this.

[achilles]

Honestly, in the world we live in today... it probably is best to shut up, keep your head down and hope the world ignores him. I am really drawing a blank now in ANY kind of slander case going from Michael Jackson to Bill Cosby to Johnny Depp to anything involving #metoo where some little guy makes an accusation and regardless of any court or evidence or anything the general public doesn't automatically assume that David is telling the truth and Goliath is a rich and powerful establishment trying to bury the truth. There really isn't much advantange to standing up in front of the world and saying "I'm not a racist!! or I'm not a jerk!!" because then you need to prove it. Instead of the accuser having to have the actual evidence.

So yeah, whether it's true or not... I'm sure all their lawyers are telling them to shut up and stay off twitter. Let the company deal with this.

"Shut up and stay off Twitter." Sound advice. I can think of someone a lot more famous than Fisher who should have followed it. But it goes for Fisher too. Actually, I'm thinking social media maybe isn't for most people.

[Johnny]

They should probably call it something other than social media, since lord knows there's nothing "social" about it anyway.

[achilles]

They should probably call it something other than social media, since lord knows there's nothing "social" about it anyway.

Indeed, it's a place of viciousness, and where you can get yourself into a lot of trouble unless you have great discipline and actually think before posting, which I've seen most people don't, myself included, which is why I'm not there. Not that I ever posted anything but my dog pictures there anyway...

[Amadeus Arkham]

Buffy and Angel actress Charisma Carpenter has come out in support of Fisher with her own troubling allegations on Whedon’s behavior on-set.





Guess Whedon can pretty much kiss his career bye-bye. It’s always sad to find out talented artist are actually terrible people.

[Johnny]

Whedon has always been known to be a prick, so this sadly isn't surprising. Sorry for what happened to Carpenter, Cordelia was often the best thing about the Buffyverse. Though Ray wasn't "fired", was he? He posted he wouldn't participate in any DC movie associated with Walter Hamada. The man essentially publicly quit, so how was he fired. Wasn't he reportedly in negotiations to appear in The Flash last year before this whole thing blew up.

[j9ac9k]

I appreciate Carpenter coming forward, not only with actual details, but with her confession of guilt and complicity at a time when she didn't feel strong enough to stand up against this behavior. I'm sure some will dismiss it as "not that bad," but it sounds like this was a constant and pervasive issue where the Man in Charge got off on his power belittling those under his employ.

[Amadeus Arkham]

[Frontier]

I guess no surprise that he bowed out of his WB project, then.

I feel bad for all the people who have had to work with him, but at least his awful behavior is finally truly coming to light.

[Castling]

Buffy and Angel actress Charisma Carpenter has come out in support of Fisher with her own troubling allegations on Whedon’s behavior on-set.





Guess Whedon can pretty much kiss his career bye-bye. It’s always sad to find out talented artist are actually terrible people.

We already knew most of what Carpenter endured under Whedon over 10 years ago. This is all about Fisher, and how he's probably wrangling to get his job back. Yesterday he demands an apology, today Carpenter expounds on her story, citing Fisher's firing as motivation.
I appreciate her sharing her story again, but it shouldn't be for a guy who rope-a-doped himself.