Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[achilles]

Read Mamoa's Instragram post. It's very clear what he's saying. He's not being coy about anything.

Yes, he's pissed at what he regarded as a fake announcement, which it might have been, though it could also have been many other things which he doesn't credit. And "Shitty way they were treated"? That could mean anything. It could mean my leading theory as to what any of them are on about, which is simply that Whedon was behaving like a director under a boatload of stress, and probably yelled a lot and generally acted like an ass to them. Which....isn't really news to anyone except maybe Fisher and possibly Mamoa. Hollywood is pretty well known for treating actors like crap.

[Johnny]

Yeah... much as I want this to be the thing that deep-sixes Johns influence at DC, release of selective quotes sets off all sorts of alarms

He hasn't had influence on DC's creative direction since he was "demoted" back in 2018. He's a hired gun not a DC or WB executive. If DC plans to use his material for future media adaptations, that isn't indicative of him having influence on the movie or TV side, it's just them adapting stories that he originally happened to write. Stargirl is the only thing he seems to have actual influence on for obvious reasons.

[Johnny]

Just when I think things are quiteting down he drops something else, he gonna keep doing droplets like pop star all the way up to movie release

His latest tweet is confusing. He claims that phone call with the investigator should make his accusations towards Walter Hamada more credible, when WB's previous statement was about him refusing to cooperate with the first investigator, not this one. I don't understand what he's trying to prove with the investigator saying during the phone call they found him credible. I have little doubt about his credibility in terms of being punctual when he finally felt the investigation was unbiased, providing names and sharing details of his experience, that's like testimony 101, but what did he actually experience on set. He was quick to throw the blatant racism claim a number of times in his last statement, so were people throwing slurs at him? Was there emotional abuse, were there threats to have him blacklisted, or did he feel slighted because his part was edited down and his suggestions weren't accepted or was essentially told to "shut up and act"?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Care to quote it? I don't have instagram. Unless this is something new his past support has been far from backing specific claims by Fisher. If he had been Fisher would have far more credibility than he does right now. The Iris actress was even less specific, all she did was back him - their complains make it look like they agree it was a bad work environment then what Fisher is claiming and not elaborating on. Fisher, like Gadot, isn't risking his career for Fisher - he's doing the bare minimum for solidarity while not burning bridges.

This the Instagram post

"THIS **** HAS TO STOP AND NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT @Rayfisher AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO EXPERIENCED WHAT HAPPEN UNDER THE WATCH OF @WBPictures NEEDS PROPER INVESTIGATION I just think it's fucked up that people released a fake Frosty announcement without my permission to try to distract from Ray Fisher speaking up about the shitty way we were treated on the Justice League reshoots. Serious stuff went down. It needs to be investigated and people need to be held accountable. I Stand With Ray Fisher."

I don't think there's much wiggle room there, guys. Mamoa wasn't exactly being coy. This is about as forthcoming as anyone could be without getting sued into bankruptcy for breaching his NDAs.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Yes, he's pissed at what he regarded as a fake announcement, which it might have been, though it could also have been many other things which he doesn't credit. And "Shitty way they were treated"? That could mean anything. It could mean my leading theory as to what any of them are on about, which is simply that Whedon was behaving like a director under a boatload of stress, and probably yelled a lot and generally acted like an ass to them. Which....isn't really news to anyone except maybe Fisher and possibly Mamoa. Hollywood is pretty well known for treating actors like crap.

I think I'm beginning to understand why we're having such wildly different opinions to this whole fiasco. I don't think this kind of shitty behavior in Hollywood was ever acceptable. The fact that is has gone on for years doesn't mean that it should continue today.

There are several directors and producers in Hollywood who have definitively proven that you don't need to be a raging ******* to the people under you to produce quality entertainment.

[Steel Inquisitor]

This the Instagram post

"THIS **** HAS TO STOP AND NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT @Rayfisher AND EVERYONE ELSE WHO EXPERIENCED WHAT HAPPEN UNDER THE WATCH OF @WBPictures NEEDS PROPER INVESTIGATION I just think it's fucked up that people released a fake Frosty announcement without my permission to try to distract from Ray Fisher speaking up about the shitty way we were treated on the Justice League reshoots. Serious stuff went down. It needs to be investigated and people need to be held accountable. I Stand With Ray Fisher."

What's he talking about? I don't know and neither do you. Something happened, sure, but what was it? We never found out and nobody's talking.

I don't think there's much wiggle room there, guys. Mamoa wasn't exactly being coy. This is about as forthcoming as anyone could be without getting sued into bankruptcy for breaching his NDAs.

That's all it is, we know he's angry about something we don't know about what. Other complaints have been far more detailed than what Momoa said like Peter Shinkoda.This is what a complaint about a boss in Hollywood doing racist things looks like.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...an-ncna1235527

Last weekend, during an online panel focused on the series “Daredevil,” actor Peter Shinkoda said former Marvel TV executive Jeph Loeb explicitly told the writers of the superhero series not to expand Shinkoda’s character, Nobu, because “nobody cares about Chinese people and Asian people.”

(Neither Loeb nor Marvel Studios have responded to the claim, but season one showrunner Steven DeKnight tweeted, “No one ever tried to get me to downplay any of the characters in season 1.” DeKnight did not, however, address Nobu’s arc in season two.)

Nobody doubted this and for good reason. What's Momoa talking about? What are those experiences? I'd love to side with Momoa and Fisher but I need an explanation not just blind faith. What are they angry about? They haven't told us.

I don't know why you're so intent on defending Fisher. He's given you nothing of substance to gain your trust.

Edit: NDA's don't cover breaking the law, but actors who speak up do get frozen out of Hollywood which he's doing anyway.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

What's he talking about? I don't know and neither do you. Something happened, sure, but what was it? We never found out and nobody's talking.



That's all it is, we know he's angry about something we don't know about what. Other complaints have been far more detailed than what Momoa said like Peter Shinkoda.This is what a complaint about a boss in Hollywood doing racist things looks like.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinio...an-ncna1235527



Nobody doubted this and for good reason. What's Momoa talking about? What are those experiences? I'd love to side with Momoa and Fisher but I need an explanation not just blind faith. What are they angry about? They haven't told us.

I don't know why you're so intent on defending Fisher. He's given you nothing of substance to gain your trust.

Edit: NDA's don't cover breaking the law, but actors who speak up do get frozen out of Hollywood which he's doing anyway.

For what must be the third or fourth time on this thread, nobody has accused anybody in this situation of criminal behavior so NDAs would still apply

[The Darknight Detective]

For what must be the third or fourth time on this thread, nobody has accused anybody in this situation of criminal behavior so NDAs would still apply

But if the charge is serious enough regardless of criminal intent, an NDA won't be enough of a cover for a corporation to hide behind. Would WB sue Fisher over allegations of racial remarks directed towards him? I seriously doubt it, especially if others could substantiate those incidents. In my gut, though, I'm assuming what is bothering Ray is more like the normal crap we all get at some point in our careers.

[Coal Tiger]

But if the charge is serious enough regardless of criminal intent, an NDA won't be enough of a cover for a corporation to hide behind. Would WB sue Fisher over allegations of racial remarks directed towards him? I seriously doubt it, especially if others could substantiate those incidents. In my gut, though, I'm assuming what is bothering Ray is more like the normal crap we all get at some point in our careers.

If there was an actual criminal charge, Fisher should have gone to the police instead of Twitter.

[The Darknight Detective]

If there was an actual criminal charge, Fisher should have gone to the police instead of Twitter.

No doubt, CT.

[achilles]

I think I'm beginning to understand why we're having such wildly different opinions to this whole fiasco. I don't think this kind of shitty behavior in Hollywood was ever acceptable. The fact that is has gone on for years doesn't mean that it should continue today.

There are several directors and producers in Hollywood who have definitively proven that you don't need to be a raging ******* to the people under you to produce quality entertainment.

Let's be clear; Whedon and company would have to go a very very long way to match some of the most beloved directors of all time. Vicious mental and physical abuse to worm performances out of actors or more commonly actresses, (Hitchcock, Kubrick, others), blatant disregard for physical safety, (James Cameron, Joe Dante, many others). Since Fisher or Mamoa or any of them won't come out and say what they're complaining about, I can only assume they're complaining about nothing, or are exaggerating, or simply have no idea about the realities of Hollywood major movie productions. It's not like we don't know exactly what went on with respect to the abuse of Shelley Duval in The Shining, or Tippi Hedren in The Birds. We know about the horrible conditions on The Abyss and Titanic....and I have to say, a tense set, which I'm sure League was when they had to change direction, isn't in the running.

Bottom line is that Fisher gets sympathy when and if he says exactly what we're suppose to sympathize with, and can provide something more than his own word.

[achilles]

But if the charge is serious enough regardless of criminal intent, an NDA won't be enough of a cover for a corporation to hide behind. Would WB sue Fisher over allegations of racial remarks directed towards him? I seriously doubt it, especially if others could substantiate those incidents. In my gut, though, I'm assuming what is bothering Ray is more like the normal crap we all get at some point in our careers.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking too.

[skyvolt2000]

Gadot? Possibly. Momoa? Aquaman is just about the only successful thing he's done since Game of Thrones (except maybe that blind show on Apple). Just about every other movie he's had has bombed. While it can be argued he has a lot of leverage, it's still by far within his best interest to stay with the Aquaman role for the foreseeable future.

Momoa also has a production company with some projects planned. So he has a lot to lose in studios working with his company.

He also has a wife and stepdaughter-Lisa Bonet and Zoe Kravtiz. Retaliation can screw towards Jason can easily target them as well.

[WebLurker]

His latest tweet is confusing. He claims that phone call with the investigator should make his accusations towards Walter Hamada more credible, when WB's previous statement was about him refusing to cooperate with the first investigator, not this one. I don't understand what he's trying to prove with the investigator saying during the phone call they found him credible. I have little doubt about his credibility in terms of being punctual when he finally felt the investigation was unbiased, providing names and sharing details of his experience, that's like testimony 101, but what did he actually experience on set. He was quick to throw the blatant racism claim a number of times in his last statement, so were people throwing slurs at him? Was there emotional abuse, were there threats to have him blacklisted, or did he feel slighted because his part was edited down and his suggestions weren't accepted or was essentially told to "shut up and act"?

I think he's hoping that the investigators saying nice things about him will make people believe him. That doesn't address the biggest problem Fisher has with credibility, IMHO; how he keeps changing his story about what happened.

[Johnrevenge]

I think he's hoping that the investigators saying nice things about him will make people believe him. That doesn't address the biggest problem Fisher has with credibility, IMHO; how he keeps changing his story about what happened.

Fisher is like Trump with the election results, throwing lot of acusations with zero evidence. I'm sure that soon he'll encourage Snyder fans to assault Warner offices.