Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Drako]

I don't get it, Johns wanted the Cyborg penis and Fisher didn't? I thought it was the other way around.

[SecretWarrior]

Sounds like Fisher wanted a weightier, more tragic character to show off his acting, while the execs wanted a freakish nice guy (Quasimodo) with lighthearted catchphrases (Booyah).

They would've run into problems either way, since cracking jokes after being torn up like that probably wouldn't make much sense, while, at the same time, the whinging Cyborg is not empowering or interesting, IMO.

[Thezmage]

I don't get it, Johns wanted the Cyborg penis and Fisher didn't? I thought it was the other way around.

Finally, some actual detail. Frankly, it still sounds like WB would have an easy time spinning this as Johns being more concerned with how the character was being perceived. And I still don't see why Ray, who is concerned that an actually abusive director would get blamed for being actually abusive, doesn't want any of the blame to fall on Snyder for casting BIPOC in the most irrelevant and easily cut scenes.

There was no indication who was making a big deal about Cyborg's penis, but as we did know that Cyborg's emasculation was a preexisting issue with the character it was generally assumed that Ray was the one with the issue.

Now we see how WB responds, now that there are actual, concrete accusations to respond to.

[SecretWarrior]

It was a futile endeavor from the beginning. Apparently iirc this whole thing was kicked off by Fisher only getting offered a cameo role in Flash with no promise of a movie. They made a counteroffer which WB passed on and that’s when Fisher went public. Not saying he did this solely for clout, but I think when he realized, like Cavill, that there was no chance of him getting a solo that’s when he decided to go public.

Funny, even when it was announced, I never believed there'd really be a Cyborg film. Sure he was used to add some diversity to the League, but he was notoriously underdeveloped since kicking off the New 52. He was the only "founder" who didn't start out with his own title with big name talent, and he didn't have any real arcs. Heck, the DC Comics website at the time featured every other founder on their front page, lol. Without any Titans history, there was just nothing there.

[Will Evans]

I don't get it, Johns wanted the Cyborg penis and Fisher didn't? I thought it was the other way around.

Apparently not.

I mean someone should tell Ray that discussion of Cyborg’s bits has been a long discussion amongst comic fans, like with Superman and the women of Kleenex issue.

Sounds like Johns wanted to make sure the movie let it be known to the audience that Victor Stone was not castrated being turned into a cyborg.

And Fisher was offended by Johns acting like he’s the authority over black man’s penis? I guess that’s it.

I mean, these were general discussions of comics Cyborg long before Fisher was involved with the character.


Does the first part look like Johns didn’t want Cyborg portrayed as a stereotypical black man? But Fisher didn’t want Cyborg as a stereotypical happy go lucky uncle Remus?



Is that what I’m getting from this?

[achilles]

Finally, some actual detail. Frankly, it still sounds like WB would have an easy time spinning this as Johns being more concerned with how the character was being perceived. And I still don't see why Ray, who is concerned that an actually abusive director would get blamed for being actually abusive, doesn't want any of the blame to fall on Snyder for casting BIPOC in the most irrelevant and easily cut scenes.

There was no indication who was making a big deal about Cyborg's penis, but as we did know that Cyborg's emasculation was a preexisting issue with the character it was generally assumed that Ray was the one with the issue.

Now we see how WB responds, now that there are actual, concrete accusations to respond to.

There's actual, concrete garbage to respond to. He expects us first to take his word on it, without supplying any evidence that anything he's saying is true. Secondly, it's stuff HE admits that HE didn't witness, so he has it at best second hand, and at worst, was stuff he just made up.

[SecretWarrior]

Wait, when did all this happen?



Then they should've complained about it when the character was introduced in the 80s.

And who the heck is reading superhero comics and doesn't understand some heroes go through tragedies to get their powers. DC has Metamorpho and Marvel has the Thing who are in the same position as Victor.

Cyborg was introduced on a team full of weirdos--Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy--so it didn't matter when he was one too. But when your only non-white character is mutilated, while every one else looks godly attractive--well, what else are people going to think?

Cyborg was always meant to be a second-class member, when folks who want diversity don't want diverse characters to be treated as secondary.

[Will Evans]

Cyborg was introduced on a team full of weirdos--Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy--so it didn't matter when he was one too. But when your only non-white character is mutilated, while every one else looks godly attractive--well, what else are people going to think?

Cyborg was always meant to be a second-class member, when folks who want diversity don't want diverse characters to be treated as secondary.

I mean it was pretty obvious in the first two issues of New Teen Titans in 1980 when everyone is in a swimsuit enjoying the pool, with Starfire naked of course, but Cyborg was left out.

[The Darknight Detective]

Apparently not.

I mean someone should tell Ray that discussion of Cyborg’s bits has been a long discussion amongst comic fans, like with Superman and the women of Kleenex issue.

Sounds like Johns wanted to make sure the movie let it be known to the audience that Victor Stone was not castrated being turned into a cyborg.

And Fisher was offended by Johns acting like he’s the authority over black man’s penis? I guess that’s it.

I mean, these were general discussions of comics Cyborg long before Fisher was involved with the character.


Does the first part look like Johns didn’t want Cyborg portrayed as a stereotypical black man? But Fisher didn’t want Cyborg as a stereotypical happy go lucky uncle Remus?



Is that what I’m getting from this?

What I'm getting from this is that none of this is going to oust Johns from his job, IMO.

[SecretWarrior]

I mean it was pretty obvious in the first two issues of New Teen Titans in 1980 when everyone is in a swimsuit enjoying the pool, with Starfire naked of course, but Cyborg was left out.

Yeah, I'm sure it was apparent, but it doesn't matter as much when you have a guy who's always green nearby and a girl with a chakra on her head too. They all look inhuman, as opposed to everyone looking like Greek gods, except for the one Black guy.

[Rac7d*]

I don't get it, Johns wanted the Cyborg penis and Fisher didn't? I thought it was the other way around.

[Thezmage]

What I'm getting from this is that none of this is going to oust Johns from his job, IMO.

Or maybe it does, depending on the degree of truth in this, but I still don't see this hurting Walter Hamada, and thus I doubt this will be enough for Fisher.

[king of hybrids]

What I'm getting from this is that none of this is going to oust Johns from his job, IMO.

Unless they have relevant clauses in the contracts, can WB actually drop him as EP on whatever projects are ongoing or in pipeline?

They can cancel Stargirl and blacklist him from DC (with Marvel, Image etc taking their cue) but not actually fire him

[Primal Slayer]

I don't get it, Johns wanted the Cyborg penis and Fisher didn't? I thought it was the other way around.

My only problem with this is that once again he is basing things off of something he hadnt heard. It could be true that they said those things but just like the Whedon "color correcting" comment appeared to be taken out of context and turned into a game of telephone, this could easily be the same situation. I would hope that the people that heard these things participated in the investigation.

As far deleting POC out of the film....they deleted William DaFoe and Robin Wright out of the film. It was 2hrs, if you werent directly tied to the plot you were likely out just as Snyder had to do in BvS theatrical cut and likely with this film had he seen it to completion had be held to the 2hr runtime.

[Rac7d*]

Cyborg was introduced on a team full of weirdos--Starfire, Raven, Beast Boy--so it didn't matter when he was one too. But when your only non-white character is mutilated, while every one else looks godly attractive--well, what else are people going to think?

Cyborg was always meant to be a second-class member, when folks who want diversity don't want diverse characters to be treated as secondary.

This why I don’t care for him, he was always treated poorly and as a little black boy I never wanted to be cyborg, always getting his body parts ripped off. Weather it was the titans or the justice league he always got damaged the most