Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Perfidiously]

Thanks for this, I actually didn't know what he meant.

No problem, I noticed there were some people confused in this thread. Happy to help.

But considering that Cyborg's penis is, in fact, a subject of much conversation and concern in the black community means that what his stance was is still relevant

Of course - when discussing racism in Cyborg's writing, Geoff Johns' potential racism, etc., his stance is very relevant to the discussion. I also wish we knew more. I just think that the arguments "Fisher was too vague in this accusation, we need more details on Johns' stance about this trope" and "this isn't a racist trope, therefore this accusation is invalid" are somewhat unfair.

[Thezmage]

Of course - when discussing racism in Cyborg's writing, Geoff Johns' potential racism, etc., his stance is very relevant to the discussion. I also wish we knew more. I just think that the arguments "Fisher was too vague in this accusation, we need more details on Johns' stance about this trope" and "this isn't a racist trope, therefore this accusation is invalid" are somewhat unfair.

I definitely agree on the latter, but I have seen plenty of people pull out the "I'm black and I don't feel this way, therefore pointing out this attitude exists amongst a majority of the black community is racist" even when facts can be provided that this thing is, in fact, an actual concern. If Fisher's position was, in fact, "I have no problem with Cyborg's emasculation, therefore Johns was wrong to suggest that we cut a line about it to avoid offending people" when we have evidence that supports Johns' side, that is relevant to the discussion

[Perfidiously]

I definitely agree on the latter, but I have seen plenty of people pull out the "I'm black and I don't feel this way, therefore pointing out this attitude exists amongst a majority of the black community is racist" even when facts can be provided that this thing is, in fact, an actual concern. If Fisher's position was, in fact, "I have no problem with Cyborg's emasculation, therefore Johns was wrong to suggest that we cut a line about it to avoid offending people" when we have evidence that supports Johns' side, that is relevant to the discussion

Ah, I see what you mean - that's a fair point.

[Thezmage]

Ah, I see what you mean - that's a fair point.

I admit that it requires me to put a whole lot of words into Fisher's mouth, and if I hadn't taken issue with the approach that Fisher had taken of dripping information slowly and never making a direct accusation (except for the one which was countered immediately) and his still mind-boggling comment about wanting to protect Whedon it wouldn't have occurred to me.

[The Darknight Detective]

I definitely agree on the latter, but I have seen plenty of people pull out the "I'm black and I don't feel this way, therefore pointing out this attitude exists amongst a majority of the black community is racist" even when facts can be provided that this thing is, in fact, an actual concern. If Fisher's position was, in fact, "I have no problem with Cyborg's emasculation, therefore Johns was wrong to suggest that we cut a line about it to avoid offending people" when we have evidence that supports Johns' side, that is relevant to the discussion

Yeah, if scientific polling data states that the black community thinks a certain way, then I don't know how anybody could claim someone was a racist for mentioning it.

[SiegePerilous02]

We'll have to see if any further information on the subject comes up to clarify if this one is more substantial then the thing Whedon and post-production. However credible you or do not find Fisher (I find myself highly skeptical, due to how many times he's changed his story, but that's based on incomplete information), his post is so vague that it's hard to tell what he's getting at.

Yes the vagueness doesn't help. I could believe Johns was on the wrong side of the conversation, but just spit that out already.

People had no problems believing Carpenter in part because she's kept her story straight and she laid out specifics. Even if she's never come forward as strongly before, she and the story surrounding her exit of the show had consistent smoke around it.

[WebLurker]

Yes the vagueness doesn't help. I could believe Johns was on the wrong side of the conversation, but just spit that out already.

Sure. If Fisher had NDAs on the subject, at least state that's the case as to why you're being vague. As the discussion here is showing, plenty of people are having trouble picking out what he's insinuating happened, which isn't good for his cause.

People had no problems believing Carpenter in part because she's kept her story straight and she laid out specifics. Even if she's never come forward as strongly before, she and the story surrounding her exit of the show had consistent smoke around it.

Oh, sure, not to mention other people collaborating her story or recalling other instances. Even Michelle Trachtenberg, who kept her account of her experiences vague for privacy reasons (as is her right), was transparent about why she wasn't being specific and still offered a clearer explanation of what she was getting at then Fisher did.

Fisher may well have had several different accusations and thought more than one person was responsible, but, if so, he didn't present his case very well, seeing how disjointed everything has become. I mean, irregardless of the accuracy of anyone's claims, I feel that I understand what exactly the Buffy alumni are saying happened, whereas I have no idea what Fisher wants anymore or what his bottom line, which makes it harder to take him seriously (whether that's fair or not).

[Rac7d*]

Yes the vagueness doesn't help. I could believe Johns was on the wrong side of the conversation, but just spit that out already.

People had no problems believing Carpenter in part because she's kept her story straight and she laid out specifics. Even if she's never come forward as strongly before, she and the story surrounding her exit of the show had consistent smoke around it.

Oh is that what this is about Cyborgs genitalia, I think the video games made a crack about what he lost down their too.

[Styles]

WarnerMedia Pushes Back on Ray Fisher‘s Latest Justice League Claims

[The Darknight Detective]

WarnerMedia Pushes Back on Ray Fisher‘s Latest Justice League Claims

WB appears to be digging in more and more after these tweets, so I don't know where Ray goes from here.

[Serpico Jones]

WB are going to have to do something about Ray Fisher. He’s badmouthing the president of the studio and the chairman of the board for no apparent reason at all.

[skyvolt2000]

WB appears to be digging in more and more after these tweets, so I don't know where Ray goes from here.

Probably attack Coates, Jordan, Milestone and other black folks working with DC.

Yes the WB now needs to do something. I wouldn't be shocked if he lost that role on the ABC show even if they have completed any filming.

[The Darknight Detective]

Probably attack Coates, Jordan, Milestone and other black folks working with DC.

Yes the WB now needs to do something. I wouldn't be shocked if he lost that role on the ABC show even if they have completed any filming.

I can't say I would be shocked if any of that happens.

[Serpico Jones]

Fisher's criticism in that tweet wasn't about Johns' actual stance re: Cyborg's genitals - Fisher didn't even mention where either of them stood on the issue. His criticism is that Johns positioned himself as an authority on the Black community. This was in response to Tucker saying that Johns tried to explain Black things to her.

That’s not a fireable offense, though.

[lemonpeace]

Probably attack Coates, Jordan, Milestone and other black folks working with DC.

that's a reach and a half