Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Thezmage]

From what I've read, it seems that Johns was insistent that Black people would react negatively to the castration of Cyborg and Fisher disagreed?

Where did you read that?

[drbiii]

1) I am black. That's why I asked if this was an American thing rather than a race one.

2) It shouldn't be a problem since Victor is in the minority of non-white characters with no sausage.



Why is Johns getting blamed for Cyborg not having his junk when the character has been like that since Marv Wolfram and George Perez created him?

I'm not trying to BLAME Johns lol, I don't have a problem with the way the character looks. I just thought that pre-Flashpoint he still had most of his body? You can see parts of his upper arms and his thighs in his original costume so I've always assumed he was basically missing his hands and feet and part of his skull? I haven't read NTT in ages so maybe I'm just wrong here and if so I apologize

[Goldrake]

I'm not trying to BLAME Johns lol, I don't have a problem with the way the character looks. I just thought that pre-Flashpoint he still had most of his body? You can see parts of his upper arms and his thighs in his original costume so I've always assumed he was basically missing his hands and feet and part of his skull? I haven't read NTT in ages so maybe I'm just wrong here and if so I apologize

in pre flashpoint Aquaman at one time had a hook hand and even a water hand. It was never an issue that he was maimed. Some liked it, others not. It was changed eventually. Some characters undergo changes, not all, because there are agreements with the creators and their heirs, what DC can do and not do with the appearance of these characters, because heirs of creators get royalties from their visuals as well.

[The Darknight Detective]

I'm not trying to BLAME Johns lol, I don't have a problem with the way the character looks. I just thought that pre-Flashpoint he still had most of his body? You can see parts of his upper arms and his thighs in his original costume so I've always assumed he was basically missing his hands and feet and part of his skull? I haven't read NTT in ages so maybe I'm just wrong here and if so I apologize

Since he was created under the Bronze Age CCA, who knows what he had or hadn't? It would have never been mentioned either way in a comic from that time.

[drbiii]

Since he was created under the Bronze Age CCA, who knows what he had or hadn't? It would have never been mentioned either way in a comic from that time.

Sure but, at the very least we can infer that he has some of his lower body in tact in his original appearance. I guess what I meant originally was that Johns as far as I know was the one who chose to depict him as having no lower body in the New 52, eliminating the chance that he could still have working bits

[The Darknight Detective]

Sure but, at the very least we can infer that he has some of his lower body in tact in his original appearance. I guess what I meant originally was that Johns as far as I know was the one who chose to depict him as having no lower body in the New 52, eliminating the chance that he could still have working bits

Let me put it this way: it was definitely something I never contemplated at the time.

[Thezmage]

so the existence of Cyborg’s genitals is that important for the Black community? seriously? can someone explain what's so important in a comic characters genitals?

The gist: the way that society criminalizes black male bodies, especially as a sexual threat, makes the fact that the black male superheroes perceived as the most prominent or pushed by the network lack the ability to be perceived as a sexual threat (not just Cyborg but Cloak from Cloak and Dagger) due to not having genitals with which to do so. If there were a bunch of black superheroes who weren't emasculated in the JLA then Cyborg's specific circumstances would be irrelevant, but there isn't, so it's not.

If Cyborg was an Asian would have it been acceptable to Fisher if Cyborg had genitals or not? Or its an exclusive to some community only.

Probably. I mean there is a longstanding racist presupposition about the size of Asian genitals and how it fits in the racist view of Asian men as sexually nonthreatening.

[Goldrake]

The gist: the way that society criminalizes black male bodies, especially as a sexual threat, makes the fact that the black male superheroes perceived as the most prominent or pushed by the network lack the ability to be perceived as a sexual threat (not just Cyborg but Cloak from Cloak and Dagger) due to not having genitals with which to do so. If there were a bunch of black superheroes who weren't emasculated in the JLA then Cyborg's specific circumstances would be irrelevant, but there isn't, so it's not.



Probably. I mean there is a longstanding racist presupposition about the size of Asian genitals and how it fits in the racist view of Asian men as sexually nonthreatening.

In Japanese manga or anime most characters are portrayed in “European” features. They definitely don't look Japanese. Some characters are even blonde. And nobody there makes an issue!!
Manga and anime are a medium produced by Japanese mainly for Japanese. Ok it has been exported overseas for some decades now, but characters have always been shown that way. Japanese could protest that these characters aren't Japanese looking, they don't. besides most of the mangas stories are based in Japan and often centered on Japanese traditions, folklore and history.
This fixation that comic characters are a symbol of some sort of racism is all American. Not saying that comics shouldn't be shownMORE inclusive, far from it. That more diverse characters are needed, a BIG YES.
But lets not make a fuss of non issues like Cyborg's sausage.

If we going to make issues like from this absurd claim, creators won't be able to do anything with black, asian or latino characters. Because the racist card will come up every time if character B, A, L, is made so and so. Each time someone will come up saying why this character and not that. It will be a never ending story.

[Lightning Rider]

In Japanese manga or anime most characters are portrayed in “European” features. They definitely don't look Japanese. Some characters are even blonde. And nobody there makes an issue!!
Manga and anime are a medium produced by Japanese mainly for Japanese. Ok it has been exported overseas for some decades now, but characters have always been shown that way. Japanese could protest that these characters aren't Japanese looking, they don't. besides most of the mangas stories are based in Japan and often centered on Japanese traditions, folklore and history.
This fixation that comic characters are a symbol of some sort of racism is all American. Not saying that comics shouldn't be shownMORE inclusive, far from it. That more diverse characters are needed, a BIG YES.
But lets not make a fuss of non issues like Cyborg's sausage.

If we going to make issues like from this absurd claim, creators won't be able to do anything with black, asian or latino characters. Because the racist card will come up every time if character B, A, L, is made so and so. Each time someone will come up saying why this character and not that. It will be a never ending story.

I don't have strong feelings either way on this issue about Cyborg's genitals, but it shouldn't be a huge burden for creators to be conscious of what their stories and characters portray, intentionally or unintentionally, and weigh the factors. That's part of the deal.

[Goldrake]

I don't have strong feelings either way on this issue about Cyborg's genitals, but it shouldn't be a huge burden for creators to be conscious of what their stories and characters portray, intentionally or unintentionally, and weigh the factors. That's part of the deal.

Ideally yes it shouldn't be. But if complaints of this sort arise each time it could be annoying and some might even avoid doing these characters not to end in controversies.
A Mature and open minded approach is needed by readers and viewers. Complain rightfully when there are reasons to do that, but not on trivial issues.

[Clark_Kent]

It isn't even that specific. More of the same from Ray IMO.

Really tired of people posting any issue they have with another human being on social media.

I wish someone would combat all this cancel culture by digging into the past of every person who accuses someone else of saying something inappropriate and then posting every single they can find what that person did. Shine a big light on everyone and see how people calm down about nitpicking every little thing.

That's a great idea, and you should be the first to do so and let us all know how it's done. Let us know what secrets Ray Fisher has in his closet, we'll wait.

[Goldrake]

That's a great idea, and you should be the first to do so and let us all know how it's done. Let us know what secrets Ray Fisher has in his closet, we'll wait.

he has none in his closet, but he can't also lecture one of the best comic writers of all times about characters he hardly had an idea about before he was casted for a role. He makes a mockery of real racism when he reduces it to Victor's sausage.

[Thezmage]

he has none in his closet, but he can't also lecture one of the best comic writers of all times about characters he hardly had an idea about before he was casted for a role. He makes a mockery of real racism when he reduces it to Victor's sausage.

He's been sufficiently vague that we don't even know what side of the issue he falls on or what sparked the discussion.

[Goldrake]

He's been sufficiently vague that we don't even know what side of the issue he falls on or what sparked the discussion.

whatever side - its pathetic and ridiculous that he brings it up. Of all issues this?
Had Fisher been a comic writer or involved in the industry he could discuss with someone like Johns on certain subjects(not comic genitals). Johns with all his good and bad is an authority on comics.
But Fisher has no idea what's what with these characters, at the very most he could be a comic reader, although I doubt he ever knew about Victor Stone.

[WebLurker]

He's been sufficiently vague that we don't even know what side of the issue he falls on or what sparked the discussion.

Yeah; as bad as the optics of the conversation apparently happening in the first place are, we have zero context or information of what happened, beyond Fisher telling us that this's why Johns is a bad person.