Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[king of hybrids]

It doesn’t help Johns’ case that while pushing Cyborg has been a thing DC has been trying for decades, his versions have been considerably more machine more consistently than other takes; as rather unfortunately demonstrated in forever evil.

[Goldrake]

What Ray Fisher said there is no different than what posters said on this forum a while back and some others disagreed with said posters (respectfully). I'm glad he brought that up.

See, I KNEW it was something wrong with this Geoff Johns guy when it came to certain black characters. People called me crazy, but I'm glad this is finally being put at the spotlight. I hope he doesn't EVER get a higher position at DC. EVER!

so the existence of Cyborg’s genitals is that important for the Black community? seriously? can someone explain what's so important in a comic characters genitals?
If Cyborg was an Asian would have it been acceptable to Fisher if Cyborg had genitals or not? Or its an exclusive to some community only.
I doubt Black community even know who is Cyborg let alone worry about his genitals. Otherwise I would be extremely disappointed with them, if a fictional character genitals are an issue for them they have wrong priorities.
Probably its Ray's weird thinking.

[The Darknight Detective]

It doesn’t help Johns’ case that while pushing Cyborg has been a thing DC has been trying for decades, his versions have been considerably more machine more consistently than other takes; as rather unfortunately demonstrated in forever evil.

The real question is: does Johns have a history of negatively portraying all or most of his black characters? If he does, then he would have a problem (though my personal impression is that he doesn't do this). BTW, does this mean Hamada isn't at the top of Ray's naughty list for this week?

[Goldrake]

The real question is: does Johns have a history of negatively portraying all or most of his black characters? If he does, then he would have a problem (though my personal impression is that he doesn't do this). BTW, does this mean Hamada isn't at the top of Ray's naughty list for this week?

if he has an issue if Cyborg has a willy or not, than hamada is included.
This is ridiculous. If I had any doubts Fisher has lost all credibility. Johns is a racist because of Cyborg's genitals!!

[skyvolt2000]

so the existence of Cyborg’s genitals is that important for the Black community? seriously? can someone explain what's so important in a comic characters genitals?
If Cyborg was an Asian would have it been acceptable to Fisher if Cyborg had genitals or not? Or its an exclusive to some community only.
I doubt Black community even know who is Cyborg let alone worry about his genitals. Otherwise I would be extremely disappointed with them, if a fictional character genitals are an issue for them they have wrong priorities.
Probably its Ray's weird thinking.

It's a hard thing to really explain. So I'll try.

It's not so much about Cyborg's genitals. It's about usage and promotion.

If the only minority that I get to regularly see in comics, merchandise, media and so on is Cyborg. Along with stories that are limited in terms of development. Folks are going to start asking why.

Especially WHY Cyborg over the others. Cyborg on Justice League make sense.

What message is being sent? To one of the largest consumer groups that is who you offer because a Hal Jordan lover is in charge of that book. Who did little to NO justice with Cyborg. David Walker did more in ONE issue than Johns did in 10 years.

The genitals is a moot point when you look at how little Cyborg-who Johns, Lee & Dan said his time has come. Yet you look over at Marvel and see Miles Morales-where is all that for Cyborg?

As for Ray's thinking-he KNOWS what he is doing. That topic was going to spark talk. He is trying to get more black folks on his side and get Johns out the door. So of course fake woke writers from Krypton show with SJW in their bios are going to fan the flames.

Don't be shock if Ray tosses out Jessica Cruz & Simon Baz were made to replace John Stewart-who they were going to kill next. He wants that man fired.

[skyvolt2000]

The real question is: does Johns have a history of negatively portraying all or most of his black characters? If he does, then he would have a problem (though my personal impression is that he doesn't do this). BTW, does this mean Hamada isn't at the top of Ray's naughty list for this week?

Depends on who you ask.

JSA- Mr Terrific and Jakeem was on the team and he did a good job with both. Johns set a bar with Holt that made that New 52 book a bigger disappointment.

Green Lantern-he really didn't do anything bad to John that would warrant MAJOR rage. More of John was the black friend to Hal.

JLA-Cyborg-same as John.

I would say Johns is guilty of a lack of development with John and Cyborg. Nothing that would warrant the rage Fisher seems to be wanting to happen.

[Goldrake]

It's a hard thing to really explain. So I'll try.

It's not so much about Cyborg's genitals. It's about usage and promotion.

If the only minority that I get to regularly see in comics, merchandise, media and so on is Cyborg. Along with stories that are limited in terms of development. Folks are going to start asking why.

Especially WHY Cyborg over the others. Cyborg on Justice League make sense.

What message is being sent? To one of the largest consumer groups that is who you offer because a Hal Jordan lover is in charge of that book. Who did little to NO justice with Cyborg. David Walker did more in ONE issue than Johns did in 10 years.

The genitals is a moot point when you look at how little Cyborg-who Johns, Lee & Dan said his time has come. Yet you look over at Marvel and see Miles Morales-where is all that for Cyborg?

As for Ray's thinking-he KNOWS what he is doing. That topic was going to spark talk. He is trying to get more black folks on his side and get Johns out the door. So of course fake woke writers from Krypton show with SJW in their bios are going to fan the flames.

Don't be shock if Ray tosses out Jessica Cruz & Simon Baz were made to replace John Stewart-who they were going to kill next. He wants that man fired.

If black folks back Fisher on Cyborgs genitals they are sorry to say crazy.
Cyborg is a cyborg most of his body is artificial, its only natural that he doesn't have certain parts.
Not because of his skin. If they don't understand that, they have a problem.

If cyborg was so important to black folk he would top all comic sales - Doesn't seem the case, I would add they don't care about him at all.

[The Darknight Detective]

Depends on who you ask.

JSA- Mr Terrific and Jakeem was on the team and he did a good job with both. Johns set a bar with Holt that made that New 52 book a bigger disappointment.

Green Lantern-he really didn't do anything bad to John that would warrant MAJOR rage. More of John was the black friend to Hal.

JLA-Cyborg-same as John.

I would say Johns is guilty of a lack of development with John and Cyborg. Nothing that would warrant the rage Fisher seems to be wanting to happen.

I believe that's a fair assessment all around, sky.

[Triniking1234]

so the existence of Cyborg’s genitals is that important for the Black community? seriously? can someone explain what's so important in a comic characters genitals?

This sounds like a yankee problem.

The discussion of Cyborg being literally castrated and emasculated is a valid complaint, IMO, especially with the tone deafness of them trying to push him as DC's #1 big time black hero at the time. I have no idea what the context of the conversion with Johns was, though, but I can say I specifically found that choice cringe worthy for years.

Thank God that's not what happened. Maybe Fisher and the others with this view should read the books.

Depends on who you ask.

JSA- Mr Terrific and Jakeem was on the team and he did a good job with both. Johns set a bar with Holt that made that New 52 book a bigger disappointment.

Green Lantern-he really didn't do anything bad to John that would warrant MAJOR rage. More of John was the black friend to Hal.

JLA-Cyborg-same as John.

I would say Johns is guilty of a lack of development with John and Cyborg. Nothing that would warrant the rage Fisher seems to be wanting to happen.

So with regards to fictional non-white characters, he didn't do anything.

[4sake Baned]

Certain things won’t understood if your not black & seemly don’t really want to understand in the 1st place. Also not explaining when goggle works for everyone. Should be common sense why is would be problem if your only for the most part / most prominent use black character more machine then man & lack genitalia while all the white & white look alien characters are pretty prefect looking & intact..

[drbiii]

From what I've read, it seems that Johns was insistent that Black people would react negatively to the castration of Cyborg and Fisher disagreed? But of course, Johns is the one responsible for Cyborgs general look in the comics right now, without the genitals. Do we know if maybe Johns received a lot of backlash for making that decision in the comic universe which has made him rethink how he should portray Cyborg in other forms of media, especially when he's their only Black representation present? I know I remember David F Walker having an issue with it when he started writing Cyborg's ongoing a few years back. Obviously none of this makes it okay to talk over a Black man on Black issues but I understand why he would think he knew how people would react if they've reacted to him doing the same thing in the past and I think it all makes him come off as somewhat racially insensitive, but calling him a racist for this seems a little over the top

[Kingdom X]

If black folks back Fisher on Cyborgs genitals they are sorry to say crazy.
Cyborg is a cyborg most of his body is artificial, its only natural that he doesn't have certain parts.
Not because of his skin. If they don't understand that, they have a problem.

If cyborg was so important to black folk he would top all comic sales - Doesn't seem the case, I would add they don't care about him at all.

First of all, we talking about the live-action movies which we KNOW has nothing to do with comic sales. Scarlet Witch can't hold down a solo book but WandaVision is the most talked about TV show on streaming right now.

Second of all, you don't get to call an entire community crazy if they have a problem with something. I personally don't give a damn about Cyborg's genitals but there's definitely a conversation to be had about why he was chosen as the token black JL member in the New 52.

[Goldrake]

This sounds like a yankee problem.



Thank God that's not what happened. Maybe Fisher and the others with this view should read the books.



So with regards to fictional non-white characters, he didn't do anything.

Fisher had no idea about Cyborg until he was casted in the role. Honestly I go with Johns when it comes to comic characters. He knows them for sure much better than Fisher. The arrogance of Fisher is absurd, he wants to lecture one the all time best comic writers about these characters.
His reasoning is utterly stupid - I repeat if Cyborg was Asian or white It would be acceptable?

I am all in favor of diversity in comics and in everything for all sake, but if these stupid arguments are gonna come up, the whole idea of more inclusivity will finish in a dead end, because this is a no go, this you can't do, that either etc etc Ultimately you can't do nothing because it will never be acceptable for stupid reasons as Cyborg's willy.

[Goldrake]

First of all, we talking about the live-action movies which we KNOW has nothing to do with comic sales. Scarlet Witch can't hold down a solo book but WandaVision is the most talked about TV show on streaming right now.

Second of all, you don't get to call an entire community crazy if they have a problem with something. I personally don't give a damn about Cyborg's genitals but there's definitely a conversation to be had about why he was chosen as the token black JL member in the New 52.

Please Don't put words in my mouth, I did not call entire community crazy. I said if black folks back him on this genital issue, sorry to say its crazy not that they are crazy.

I am certain that Black community have more serious priorities than worrying cyborg's willy.

Fisher is playing the racist card on a ridiculous issue. Making a racist issue due to a fictional character having genitals or not, is making a mockery of real racism.

[Triniking1234]

Certain things won’t understood if your not black & seemly don’t really want to understand in the 1st place. Also not explaining when goggle works for everyone. Should be common sense why is would be problem if your only for the most part / most prominent use black character more machine then man & lack genitalia while all the white & white look alien characters are pretty prefect looking & intact..

1) I am black. That's why I asked if this was an American thing rather than a race one.

2) It shouldn't be a problem since Victor is in the minority of non-white characters with no sausage.

From what I've read, it seems that Johns was insistent that Black people would react negatively to the castration of Cyborg and Fisher disagreed? But of course, Johns is the one responsible for Cyborgs general look in the comics right now, without the genitals. Do we know if maybe Johns received a lot of backlash for making that decision in the comic universe which has made him rethink how he should portray Cyborg in other forms of media, especially when he's their only Black representation present? I know I remember David F Walker having an issue with it when he started writing Cyborg's ongoing a few years back. Obviously none of this makes it okay to talk over a Black man on Black issues but I understand why he would think he knew how people would react if they've reacted to him doing the same thing in the past and I think it all makes him come off as somewhat racially insensitive, but calling him a racist for this seems a little over the top

Why is Johns getting blamed for Cyborg not having his junk when the character has been like that since Marv Wolfram and George Perez created him?