Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Thezmage]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ray8fishe...74602448056326

It would appear Johns defence of “continuity” has triggered Fisher’s trap card

Companies exert more control over the appearance of their main characters than their villains? Huge, if true

[Thezmage]

Eh, I think each individual thing in isolation can be reasonably deemed a creative difference, taken all together though and it becomes a death by a thousand papercuts where Johns comes off looking ignorant. We even got an elevated form of the "I have a black friend" defense in there.

That is definitely what Fisher and the article writer are picking and choosing incidents in an attempt to create, yes.

[Wandering_Wand]

I think Ray Fisher is standing on higher ground right now. I haven't been on board with his accusations (most of them, anyway) until today (after reading the ENTIRE article). Most of what he and others have been dropping hints about seem to be corroborated to some degree. And while I am not afraid to say I think using race as an excuse for everything is overused, I do think there was some general insensitivity at play here. That's a difference (in my opinion) to outright racism, of which I don't think necessarily happened here from what we know. I think it was insensitivity and egos not willing to listen. Unfortunately, it's too easy to paint this under the guise of race/racism as is so often (too often) done today.

Having said that...

-Joss Whedon is an utter P.O.S.
-The WB execs are clueless. Completely clueless.
-Geoff Johns's ego is (was?) massive.
-Berg was the monkey in the middle, toeing the company line.
-I don't see any chance of JL2 and JL3 finishing in any form after this, even if its on HBO Max (and using the touted Multiverse as a reason for all of this to coexist...pfft). Could be exactly what WB wanted, which is pathetic, but whatever.
-WB trying to blame Zack as the architect behind all of this chaos was a new level of low to me. I mean, Jesus Christ... That's enough to make me want to walk away from WB's DC IPs on live action film for a while. There is absolutely no proof of this, whatsoever, and not only that, Zack has been very open and transparent with the fans. And I don't think he's ever expressed interest in "running the DC Universe." His 5 film arc was his and he has said he was going to let other directors do whatever they wanted. WB prematurely pulled the plug on everything too soon because THEY wanted MCU money and success after TWO films when the MCU was going on 10+.

In short, WB delved too greedily too quickly...

[Rac7d*]

Whedon continues to look bad, more doesn't need to be said.

It always looked like Ray Fisher was saying John's was passive/enabled the situation with Whedon instead of actually being the middle man/mediator/overseer or whatever his title was, so it never looked that bad for him, what does look bad tho is his reps saying that he's Lebanese-American, or that he loved/wrote Cyborg, that he married a black woman, and now an asian one, and that he has a mixed-race son, so obviously he can't be anything he's being accused of, even though Ray never hinted at what they're implying, outside of the above, Ray was also saying that John's was overstepping and that's it, but the way twitter is reacting to his Johns reps statement lol.

Hamada, this is a tough one, Hamada didn't necessarily do anything (wrong), but he didn't do anything (right) which is also the problem, this is all happening and nothing was done, he obviously heard about the hostile workplace and yet he didn't attempt to reach out to the actors, apologize on behalf of the company, nada, just wanted to put it behind him. Hamada seems very passive or at the very least, he's in his position to care and focus only on the bottom line.

No one can apologize
Apologies mean admitting fault, which leads to lawsuits
If Geoff apologizes he will be fired. Hamada I’m not sure unless Ray has some ammunition for him too. However since he is no releasing information the sources will be discovered soon

[Goldrake]

I think Ray Fisher is standing on higher ground right now. I haven't been on board with his accusations (most of them, anyway) until today (after reading the ENTIRE article). Most of what he and others have been dropping hints about seem to be corroborated to some degree. And while I am not afraid to say I think using race as an excuse for everything is overused, I do think there was some general insensitivity at play here. That's a difference (in my opinion) to outright racism, of which I don't think necessarily happened here from what we know. I think it was insensitivity and egos not willing to listen. Unfortunately, it's too easy to paint this under the guise of race/racism as is so often (too often) done today.

Having said that...

-Joss Whedon is an utter P.O.S.
-The WB execs are clueless. Completely clueless.
-Geoff Johns's ego is (was?) massive.
-Berg was the monkey in the middle, toeing the company line.
-I don't see any chance of JL2 and JL3 finishing in any form after this, even if its on HBO Max (and using the touted Multiverse as a reason for all of this to coexist...pfft). Could be exactly what WB wanted, which is pathetic, but whatever.
-WB trying to blame Zack as the architect behind all of this chaos was a new level of low to me. I mean, Jesus Christ... That's enough to make me want to walk away from WB's DC IPs on live action film for a while. There is absolutely no proof of this, whatsoever, and not only that, Zack has been very open and transparent with the fans. And I don't think he's ever expressed interest in "running the DC Universe." His 5 film arc was his and he has said he was going to let other directors do whatever they wanted. WB prematurely pulled the plug on everything too soon because THEY wanted MCU money and success after TWO films when the MCU was going on 10+.

In short, WB delved too greedily too quickly...

standing on higher ground? really? that he refused to say the booyah phrase. Just try and refuse to do something like he did in any normal place of work and see if you don't get fired!
What's John's massive ego? and Since when Ray Fisher is an authority on comic characters?

[Goldrake]

No one can apologize
Apologies mean admitting fault, which leads to lawsuits
If Geoff apologizes he will be fired. Hamada I’m not sure unless Ray has some ammunition for him too. However since he is no releasing information the sources will be discovered soon

Why should he apologize, he did nothing wrong. Its all assumptions by Fisher.
Since when having different views is room to apologize?
Since when Fisher is an authority on comic characters?
Since when telling someone not to talk to one of the directors when he is in a bad mood something wrong?
Since when telling someone not to get a bad reputation a threat to one's career?
Since when wanting a catch phrase which is synonymous with a character something to apologize about?

[king of hybrids]

Aside from the racism accusations on there own*, Johns’ great sin appears to be A) not knowing when to shut up and B) being utterly clueless at the vast, vast gulf between office politics in DC editorial and WB, wherein his man child tendencies caused havok

* those have been swirling around since at least the failed attempt to kill John Stewart off

[Agent Z]

edited post.

[Frontier]

Aside from the racism accusations on there own*, Johns’ great sin appears to be A) not knowing when to shut up and B) being utterly clueless at the vast, vast gulf between office politics in DC editorial and WB, wherein his man child tendencies caused havok

* those have been swirling around since at least the failed attempt to kill John Stewart off

I think calling him a manchild is a bit much.

Was he ever direclty implicated to be involved in the attempt to kill John off? It came around the time he was done with the GL books, as I recall correctly.

Given what he's written, I'd question Johns's authority on comic characters.

I'd say he has as much authority as any actual comics creator should have. Whether we agree with his opinion and perspective on certain characters is another matter.

[HsssH]

Eh, I think each individual thing in isolation can be reasonably deemed a creative difference, taken all together though and it becomes a death by a thousand papercuts where Johns comes off looking ignorant.

When you think about it, WB saying that New Gods were cancelled due to Darkseid appearing in Snyder Cut sounded stupid, but whatever. But now supposedly Snyder was behind Fisher as well. Whats next, Snyder somehow ruining BOP and WW84?

All this shit is forming patterns.

[I'm a Fish]

I think Ray Fisher is standing on higher ground right now. I haven't been on board with his accusations (most of them, anyway) until today (after reading the ENTIRE article). Most of what he and others have been dropping hints about seem to be corroborated to some degree. And while I am not afraid to say I think using race as an excuse for everything is overused, I do think there was some general insensitivity at play here. That's a difference (in my opinion) to outright racism, of which I don't think necessarily happened here from what we know. I think it was insensitivity and egos not willing to listen. Unfortunately, it's too easy to paint this under the guise of race/racism as is so often (too often) done today.

Having said that...

-Joss Whedon is an utter P.O.S.
-The WB execs are clueless. Completely clueless.
-Geoff Johns's ego is (was?) massive.
-Berg was the monkey in the middle, toeing the company line.
-I don't see any chance of JL2 and JL3 finishing in any form after this, even if its on HBO Max (and using the touted Multiverse as a reason for all of this to coexist...pfft). Could be exactly what WB wanted, which is pathetic, but whatever.
-WB trying to blame Zack as the architect behind all of this chaos was a new level of low to me. I mean, Jesus Christ... That's enough to make me want to walk away from WB's DC IPs on live action film for a while. There is absolutely no proof of this, whatsoever, and not only that, Zack has been very open and transparent with the fans. And I don't think he's ever expressed interest in "running the DC Universe." His 5 film arc was his and he has said he was going to let other directors do whatever they wanted. WB prematurely pulled the plug on everything too soon because THEY wanted MCU money and success after TWO films when the MCU was going on 10+.

In short, WB delved too greedily too quickly...

After Fisher said he would never work with Hamada, I basically expected the JL movies were finished.

I'm pretty sure that's why WB was so against it releasing so soon after it had aired in theaters (compared to other director cuts). If you release this 10 years after the theatrical cut, no one thinks there's going to be a sequel, but if you release it 4 years after it gives people hope it could happen.

[Johnny]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ray8fishe...74602448056326

It would appear Johns defence of “continuity” has triggered Fisher’s trap card

It's kind of funny how the only part of the Johns' rep comments that Ray addressed, was by making an assumption of racist intent on Johns' part about a project that Ray had no involvement in.

[CosmiComic]

Idk how WB can blame Zack when he clearly respected Cyborg more than they did

[I'm a Fish]

Idk how WB can blame Zack when he clearly respected Cyborg more than they did

They're a company, they only care about money. To them, respecting the character doesn't matter if they don't think it will make them money.

[The Darknight Detective]

My feeling with all of these "he/she should be fired/jailed/executed" threads is: would you feel the same way if you liked that person's work instead of disliking it? The same could be said from the other side, too.

How many people wanted Eddie Berganze to go down because they hated his handling of the Superman line? How many gave Johnny Depp a pass because they still wanted to see him starring in movies? What I'm trying to say is let's make sure we (me, too!) check our biases at the door first.