Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[CosmiComic]

My feeling with all of these "he/she should be fired/jailed/executed" threads is: would you feel the same way if you liked that person's work instead of disliking it? The same could be said from the other side, too.

How many people wanted Eddie Berganze to go down because they hated his handling of the Superman line? How many gave Johnny Depp a pass because they still wanted to see him starring in movies? What I'm trying to say is let's make sure we (me, too!) check our biases at the door first.

Well, personally even if I like someone's work, if they mistreated or abused someone, they should go down

[The Darknight Detective]

Well, personally even if I like someone's work, if they mistreated or abused someone, they should go down

I totally agree. Their work shouldn't be a factor in regard to how you feel about their guilt.

[CosmiComic]

I totally agree. Their work shouldn't be a factor in regard to how you feel about their guilt.

Sometimes it's easier to say "I never liked them anyway," and that may be true. But with everything that's happened, I think we need to keep our moral attitudes consistent, especially considering how secretive Hollywood and other industries have been towards many kinds of abuse, and how they've been excused by people saying "But they do good work." Ideally that would be immaterial

[Rac7d*]

It's kind of funny how the only part of the Johns' rep comments that Ray addressed, was by making an assumption of racist intent on Johns' part about a project that Ray had no involvement in.

It did what it needed to set Twitter aflame he’s been trending all day.
All DC news will be tainted for the next few weeks possible through their investoes call at the end of turn month

[king of hybrids]

More importantly (if ones aim is to screw Johns) it’s the day before his first non-Big 2 project ever launches (and he needs all the goodwill he can get)

[Vordan]

Ray even says he “isn’t going anywhere”. He’ll be making comments forever, but the Snyder Cult isn’t going anywhere either. So WB’s won’t be able to “move on” from this any time soon on Twitter anyway.

That said everyone who hates Johns for this already hated him anyway for “screwing over” Snyder. I don’t expect the feud with Ray to negatively impact Geiger’s sales at all, I doubt the people who buy monthlies care.

[Thezmage]

My feeling with all of these "he/she should be fired/jailed/executed" threads is: would you feel the same way if you liked that person's work instead of disliking it? The same could be said from the other side, too.

How many people wanted Eddie Berganze to go down because they hated his handling of the Superman line? How many gave Johnny Depp a pass because they still wanted to see him starring in movies? What I'm trying to say is let's make sure we (me, too!) check our biases at the door first.

I've loved Whedon's work for a long time, he should definitely never get a show again

[Hypo]

That said everyone who hates Johns for this already hated him anyway for “screwing over” Snyder.

Well I don't agree with that, though I guess you could say I don't hate Johns I'm just kind of side eyeing him.

The Snyderverse was not great and releasing the Snyder cut was WB rewarding toxic fan behavior and I personally don't think they should've done that...that being said there's a whole lot of smoke around Johns, the Ray Fisher stuff, the Nadria Tucker thing, the thing with him allegedly DM-ing that underage girl, Diane Nelson saying he was abusive...it all starts to add up.

The other thing that strikes me as off is we haven't seen any comic creators come to his defense publicly have we? The only one I can think of is EVS, which seems to indicate that they're still in touch...and that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

[lefthanded]

That was a really long article that didn't really reveal much more that we didn't already know (kind of like the Snyder cut, funnily enough). There is no smoking gun regarding Johns or Hamada.

On the Whedon side of things: Confirms Whedon mistreated everyone and was high on his power. There was a little more detail on what the Gal Gadot situation was, but is pretty much what we already knew.

On the Hamada side of things - nothing he did was strictly wrong. Sure, he didn't hire all the investigators Fisher wanted him to, but there doesn't seem to be any negative intent. Maybe Hamada did want to protect Johns instead of firing him, but it doesn't seem like Johns did something obviously actionable. Fisher himself in the article has not stated anything specifically that the Investigators did wrong or ignored (he hasn't pointed out racially motivated events that the investigator left out). It seems his major issue is distrusting the investigation, and interpreting events differently from the investigators.

On the Johns side of things - his behavior could be read on quite a spectrum of things, and his actions could be read as:
(1) favorably as creativity based (Eg. protecting the 'continuity'),
(2) less favorably as money based (Eg. booyah catchphrase is marketable and might get more money, which is Johns' job to do), or
(3) unfavorably as insensitive / microaggressions.

Microaggressions is a mild form of racism (We really do need a better word than racism to encompass all the nuances), but nothing that is overtly racist. (3) is definitely something that needs to be fixed and has no place in the workplace, but if that is all, it is not the sole basis for Johns to lose his job. He definitely needs to become a better person, with all the smoke surrounding him though.


The one thing was weird to me was how Fisher didn't like Forrest because she stated she had been appointed by Obama - sure it could be read as the artificial 'I'm an ally because my [Person] is black", but it could also be read as her burnishing her credentials. It's just a failed attempt at building rapport, nothing sinister.

[skyvolt2000]

Was he ever direclty implicated to be involved in the attempt to kill John off? It came around the time he was done with the GL books, as I recall correctly.

It is ODD that all came around as John created Jessica and Simon showed up.

It's one thing to kill off John Stewart and his ring picks Simon or Jessica but those two showed up with rings.

So that is red flag for many when there are too many Earth Lanterns to begin with.

Idk how WB can blame Zack when he clearly respected Cyborg more than they did

The cartoons and tv shows have shown Cyborg WAY more respect than the comics. That did not start with Zack. He was just doing what Teen Titans, Superfriends and Doom Patrol have done and in reality expanded on what SHOULD have been in the comics.

A mother box is inside Cyborg. The LINE starts to the left of folks that should be trying to get it from Legion of Doom to Lord Zedd to Sinestro to Joker and anyone else. If it's that powerful. Yet what did we see in comics?

How many people wanted Eddie Berganze to go down because they hated his handling of the Superman line? How many gave Johnny Depp a pass because they still wanted to see him starring in movies? What I'm trying to say is let's make sure we (me, too!) check our biases at the door first.

I could careless what Eddie did to Superman. He should have been SHOWN the door a long time ago.

[Frontier]

Well I don't agree with that, though I guess you could say I don't hate Johns I'm just kind of side eyeing him.

The Snyderverse was not great and releasing the Snyder cut was WB rewarding toxic fan behavior and I personally don't think they should've done that...that being said there's a whole lot of smoke around Johns, the Ray Fisher stuff, the Nadria Tucker thing, the thing with him allegedly DM-ing that underage girl, Diane Nelson saying he was abusive...it all starts to add up.

The other thing that strikes me as off is we haven't seen any comic creators come to his defense publicly have we? The only one I can think of is EVS, which seems to indicate that they're still in touch...and that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Other than David Walker supporting Ray I'm not sure I've seen any comic creatives involve themselves in this.

Not even Cavill, Affleck, or Ezra Miller have really gotten involved either.

[king of hybrids]

Berganza’s also an issue for Johns, seeing as Berganza was the one who recruited him and gave him his initial gigs. Odds are Johns was a major force in Berganza being kept on after the first time stuff came out

I like/liked Johns stuff, but if even half the accusations (Fisher and Tucker, as well as Nelson and Ritesh Babu alluding to worse stuff comics side) are true; I’d be totally ok with blacklisting him and burning each and every character/concept he has a credit for out of DC; if only as an example/warning to others

[DragonPiece]

Ray even says he “isn’t going anywhere”. He’ll be making comments forever, but the Snyder Cult isn’t going anywhere either. So WB’s won’t be able to “move on” from this any time soon on Twitter anyway.

That said everyone who hates Johns for this already hated him anyway for “screwing over” Snyder. I don’t expect the feud with Ray to negatively impact Geiger’s sales at all, I doubt the people who buy monthlies care.

Unless Ray is still keeping some things private, what other ammo does he have? The Snyder cut hype is over, unless Wb is crazy enough to give into the restore the Snyder verse demands after all this..

[Johnny]

The other thing that strikes me as off is we haven't seen any comic creators come to his defense publicly have we?

Why would they. Johns is not their boss or co-worker anymore, an actor has been calling him a racist every day for a year, he was under investigation, now THR published what for the lack of a better phrase could be called a "hit piece" partially accentuated on him. Why would any comic creator put their ass on the line for someone they likely haven't had any contact with for years. I imagine they wouldn't want bad publicity for themselves too. "Social media" destroys lives and they know that. Go ask Jae Lee.

Though I do find it interesting how previously Fisher didn't say a thing about Johns in regards to race, he only talked about him "enabling" Whedon's behavior. Then once he brought up race, that's all he's been saying about him ever since. I mean let's look at some of the "bombshells" about Johns in that article: questioning a black actress' haircut in a scene for continuity purposes? Wanting Superman's grandfather to resemble the actor who recently portrayed Superman? "Advising" Ray to not get a bad reputation in Hollywood for contacting the head of the studio over creative differences? Wanting Cyborg to be less like Frankenstein's monster and more like Quasimodo in terms of demeanor? The previously mentioned "angry black man" thing they didn't want in the movie to supposedly avoid stereotypes? This is the "abhorrent discriminatory retaliatory" behavior that Fisher described about Johns? Then look at some of the verbiage used in the article, such as Johns allegedly making a "servile posture" to imitate Quasimodo in front of Ray. The author obviously knew exactly what they were doing, but I was perhaps expecting something a bit more juicy if this guy is supposed to be such an abhorrent racist as Ray previously described him to be.

[Vordan]

Well I don't agree with that, though I guess you could say I don't hate Johns I'm just kind of side eyeing him.

The Snyderverse was not great and releasing the Snyder cut was WB rewarding toxic fan behavior and I personally don't think they should've done that...that being said there's a whole lot of smoke around Johns, the Ray Fisher stuff, the Nadria Tucker thing, the thing with him allegedly DM-ing that underage girl, Diane Nelson saying he was abusive...it all starts to add up.

The other thing that strikes me as off is we haven't seen any comic creators come to his defense publicly have we? The only one I can think of is EVS, which seems to indicate that they're still in touch...and that's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Other creators have still talked positively about him in podcasts or whatever, but nobody is going to willingly involve themselves in this.

Berganza’s also an issue for Johns, seeing as Berganza was the one who recruited him and gave him his initial gigs. Odds are Johns was a major force in Berganza being kept on after the first time stuff came out

I like/liked Johns stuff, but if even half the accusations (Fisher and Tucker, as well as Nelson and Ritesh Babu alluding to worse stuff comics side) are true; I’d be totally ok with blacklisting him and burning each and every character/concept he has a credit for out of DC; if only as an example/warning to others

Nelson was Johns boss. She was Berganza’s boss. She could’ve fired both of them if they behaved inappropriately, and in Berganza’s case he was a well known harasser. Nelson deleted her Twitter account right after someone specifically called her out on that. She is the one who bears the responsibility for protecting Berganza, although I doubt Johns was pushing for Berganza to be let go. Berganza was involved everywhere, Scott Snyder worked with him on Metal and thanked him for his editing right before Berganza got let go. Everyone at DC was complicit in that.

Ritesh has zero inside industry sources as seen by how he was praising Warren Ellis right before Ellis got outed as a harasser. He’s got a hate boner for Johns too, he doesn’t know anything.

Unless Ray is still keeping some things private, what other ammo does he have? The Snyder cut hype is over, unless Wb is crazy enough to give into the restore the Snyder verse demands after all this..

I mean this is everything. It’s enough to make Johns look like a moron and a jackass, but not really enough to get him fired I suspect. Especially since then they’d have to fire Hamada as well. But Ray won’t let this go, he’s going to keep bringing this back up every time a major DC project is announced, and the Snyder Cult will lend him their retweets because they want Hamada fired in hopes of clearing the way for Snyder’s return, and they want Johns out of DC as revenge for JL.

Can’t really blame Ray for holding a grudge and I could care less if WB execs get cyber bullied on Twitter though, screw ‘em they made their bed.