Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Primal Slayer]

Based on what evidence?

Based on what Ray has said about his conversations with Ray, on that writer talking about their conversations with him, on having his rep request that be referred to as Lebanese American.

[Thezmage]

Based on what Ray has said about his conversations with Ray, on that writer talking about their conversations with him, on having his rep request that be referred to as Lebanese American.

He is Lebanese American. Why should him not wanting to be misidentified as white be a problem?

[Primal Slayer]

He is Lebanese American. Why should him not wanting to be misidentified as white be a problem?

To my knowledge, he has never wanted to be identified as Lebanese American until now where he tried to use it to make himself come across a certain way due to the allegations.

[Thezmage]

To my knowledge, he has never wanted to be identified as Lebanese American until now where he tried to use it to make himself come across a certain way due to the allegations.

So you missed him talking about it when he introduced Simon Baz?

[Primal Slayer]

So you missed him talking about it when he introduced Simon Baz?

That's not even the point. He's half lebanese, he's talked about it when he introduced a character of similar origin, all fine and dandy. Referring to yourself as Lebanese-American is fine but as I said I dont recall him ever specifically wanting to be called Lebanese-American and it comes across as him trying to use that fact as to get brownie points against the allegations where he is a white passing guy talking about black superheroes in live action.

[Thezmage]

That's not even the point. He's half lebanese, he's talked about it when he introduced a character of similar origin, all fine and dandy. Referring to yourself as Lebanese-American is fine but as I said I dont recall him ever specifically wanting to be called Lebanese-American and it comes across as him trying to use that fact as to get brownie points against the allegations where he is a white passing guy talking about black superheroes in live action.

So after a year of having his identity misidentified by a campaign attempting to get him and an Asian guy fired and replaced with a white guy he wants them to stop misidentifying him and that’s suspicious and “weaponizing” his identity because he only brought it up every time it was ever relevant before and hasn’t held the appropriate number of press conferences about it?

I mean I get what you’re saying, the obviously impartial article writer made sure to say “he wanted to be identified as Lebanese American” to make it sound untrustworthy so of course it sounds untrustworthy to you. I’m sure that framing was completely innocent

[Frontier]

Johns in his infinite power as DC CCO said that Superman couldn't have a black grandfather because reasons(mostly being continuity apparently which is ridic) but then the show Krypton proceeded to cast a black general zod making his statements facetious and a lie
Its stuff like that which make it incredibly hard for someone auditioning for a role on a TV show not to think he just didn't want a black lead on krypton
Now said actor is in a highly coveted position in Hollywood and likely to be the next Black Panther. You can't make for a bigger mess

I feel like part of it is just how casting for these franchises work, to where you keep the traditional white male lead but then can go a little more experimental with the supporting cast or antagonists.

Like Barry Allen and the West Family or Peter Parker and his MCU Supporting Cast.

If I'm remembering correctly, the drop off in viewership after the first episode was massive, but Sci-Fi stuck with it based upon the false impression that the show would eventually gain an audience over time and that they could revamp the show by introducing Lobo in the second season. When that failed, they pulled the plug.

To be fair, a lot of these shows do tend to build over time, particularly genre shows. Game of Thrones built its audience over time, as did Battlestar Galactica. Star Trek Discovery is another great example of a genre show that had a bumpy first season, but managed to work out enough of the kinks in the subsequent seasons that its now viewed as largely successful (despite what parts of the internet may say). The same could have been true of Krypton, but I think the characters just weren't compelling enough to anyone who wasn't already fully-immersed in loving the Superman mythos.

I watched it with my wife, who tuned out after the first twenty minutes, whereas I gave up after the second episode. Had they started with the Zod twist, I might have stuck around, but I wasn't interested in slogging through a whole season of a show to get to the good stuff when there wasn't a single character I had any interest with. Even if they had found some incredibly charismatic black actor to play Superman's grandfather, I seriously doubt that would have saved the show from being the forgettable sci-fi GoT rehash it felt like from the get-go.

I enjoyed it from the get-go but it definitely gets better when we see more of Zod and Brainiac.

[Kingdom X]

Thing is a lot of black DC fans took issue with Cyborg’s status, so I can see where Johns was coming from. Does Ray being fine with it overrule the years of complaints Johns took from other black fans? Hell when the news concerning arguments over DCEU Cyborg’s genitals initially came out, I saw a lot of people thought the situation was reversed. They believed Ray wanted Vic to keep his genitals and Johns was arguing for him not to have them, and were accusing Johns of being threatened by black male sexuality.

With all that in mind, what’s the right thing to do? Ray wanted to preserve Snyder’s take on Cyborg, troubling as it could be. Does Ray’s desires overrule other black fans complaints? I wouldn’t really know what to do either. Should’ve done a better job explaining to Ray where he was coming from rather than just brushing him off.

While I can empathize with some of the pressures that Ray was under and the difficulties of being the only black person in a professional space, I'm not sure if I appreciate him making himself the de-factor voice of the black community. He basically took the position of, "Well there's no other black people in the room, so I guess I gotta represent." Again, I get that as a response in the moment but then more of his campaign should have been about diversifying who gets to play a role in these huge productions. Instead it's all been about personal vendettas against the non-black people who have wronged him.

Regarding Johns' PR team... they're an absolute mess. Having to be like, "See! He introduced X non-white character Y amount of years ago," is not addressing the current problems people are bringing up.

Lastly, the thing with "microaggressions" is that they're micro on the side of the person who made the comment, but on the receiving end it's just one of many instances that build up over time. So again I empathize with the frustration even though I don't agree with all the actions taken.

[king of hybrids]

I can pretty much see Fisher’s counter being that if he’s so proud of being Lebanese-American, why is Stargirl white?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

To my knowledge, he has never wanted to be identified as Lebanese American until now where he tried to use it to make himself come across a certain way due to the allegations.

Johns has talked about his Lebanese heritage before and was one of the reasons he created Simon Baz. His middle name is "Middle Eastern" sounding enough that he's inevitably been stopped for "random checks" whenever he goes through airport security.

While I'm sure Johns has some issues with racial sensitivity, as we all do (regardless of our race), but I don't think Fisher is giving Johns enough credit for the significant work he's done to diversify the DCU.

[Agent Z]

Thing is a lot of black DC fans took issue with Cyborg’s status, so I can see where Johns was coming from. Does Ray being fine with it overrule the years of complaints Johns took from other black fans? Hell when the news concerning arguments over DCEU Cyborg’s genitals initially came out, I saw a lot of people thought the situation was reversed. They believed Ray wanted Vic to keep his genitals and Johns was arguing for him not to have them, and were accusing Johns of being threatened by black male sexuality.

With all that in mind, what’s the right thing to do? Ray wanted to preserve Snyder’s take on Cyborg, troubling as it could be. Does Ray’s desires overrule other black fans complaints? I wouldn’t really know what to do either. Should’ve done a better job explaining to Ray where he was coming from rather than just brushing him off.

Considering Snyder's take on Cyborg proved pretty popular among audiences, black viewers included, I'd say Fisher had a better understanding of what black fans wanted out of Cyborg than Johns. Especially since being an angry black man was never the main source of contention when it came to Cyborg even being on the Justice League.

[HsssH]

I'm not sure what even is the point of saying that you are Lebanese American. Its not like someone from Lebanon can't be racist, racism is not unique to white people.

[The_Lurk]

*sigh* Can't Fisher, Johns & Hamada just make up and do an awesome Cyborg movie?

... what, let me have my unrealistic better world fantasies :P

[BatmanJones]

*sigh* Can't Fisher, Johns & Hamada just make up and do an awesome Cyborg movie?

... what, let me have my unrealistic better world fantasies :P

Leaving Fisher out of it entirely, when has Johns been attached to a successful live-action anything? Great comic book writer, never should have tried to go Hollywood. That hasn’t worked out well for any of us.

[Rac7d*]

I'm not sure what even is the point of saying that you are Lebanese American. Its not like someone from Lebanon can't be racist, racism is not unique to white people.

Geoff has white sounding name and is white passing no one is gonna sympathize with him in the court of public opinions
He has become Lea Michele