Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Lightning Rider]

I kind of feel bad for being relieved that Clemons was being recast for hopes of a white red-headed Iris (in hopes of OG ginger Wally). But I guess we ultimately have DiDio to thank for that.

Well, while they're at it, I hope they address the chaos of why two black people wind up with a mixed race daughter (Iris West). I also think something similar happened with their version of Wally West, but I'm not an expert of that show.

Is that really chaos? Is it something even a significant minority of audiences are aware of?

[Frontier]

I kind of feel bad for being relieved that Clemons was being recast for hopes of a white red-headed Iris (in hopes of OG ginger Wally). But I guess we ultimately have DiDio to thank for that.

To me it just seemed too reminiscent of the TV show, even if I wouldn't expect Clemmons' Iris to be anything like Candice's on the TV Show.

[Jack The Tripper]

I'm totally fine with it as long as it's handled well. Superheroes are no strangers to dealing with real world issues. But the studio was stupidly under the impression BVS had bad box office legs because it was serious, not because people might've just thought it was bad. It's the reactionary nature that has plagued the studio for quite some time.

For me, I think it would be somewhat disrespectful to address this issue with a non black actor in the lead. It could turn out well but to me it seems very "white saviour" and I don't know if I trust the DCEU with handling it with finesse.

[Frontier]

For me, I think it would be somewhat disrespectful to address this issue with a non black actor in the lead. It could turn out well but to me it seems very "white saviour" and I don't know if I trust the DCEU with handling it with finesse.

Yeah, that's more something I'd expect addressed for John Stewart (who is technically in law enforcement) or Black Lightning.

[Dark Falz]

I kind of feel bad for being relieved that Clemons was being recast for hopes of a white red-headed Iris (in hopes of OG ginger Wally). But I guess we ultimately have DiDio to thank for that.



Is that really chaos? Is it something even a significant minority of audiences are aware of?

You mean how mixed people get created? Yeah, I think a significant amount of the audience is aware of that. It's chaos for a couple reasons. I guess I can go into it.

a) Black people (often females) tend not to like this sort of thing because they get "overwritten" by mixed people and mixed people become black people. I've heard some say--and these aren't my words--if mixed people become black people then, black people just become n's...if you know what I mean.

b) Mixed people...you don't tend to hear from as much, probably because you just generally don't hear from them as much, but I have heard from some in regards to this sort of thing, and for whatever it's worth, I'm one myself. On our end (the mixed people), we suffer because, while we get shown on the screen, we sometimes (like in this case) don't get to be mixed people and instead have to pretend to be "just" black people. They want our look, but they don't want to pay the real world price that look requires, which would be showcasing them as mixed people. I hope that makes sense.

How many people actually care about the discrepancies they're seeing on the screen, I honestly could not say. But even if most of the audience doesn't care, I still don't see why this sort of thing is done. Either cast black people or let mixed people be who they really are.

[80sbaby]

You mean how mixed people get created? Yeah, I think a significant amount of the audience is aware of that. It's chaos for a couple reasons. I guess I can go into it.

a) Black people (often females) tend not to like this sort of thing because they get "overwritten" by mixed people and mixed people become black people. I've heard some say--and these aren't my words--if mixed people become black people then, black people just become n's...if you know what I mean.

b) Mixed people...you don't tend to hear from as much, probably because you just generally don't hear from them as much, but I have heard from some in regards to this sort of thing, and for whatever it's worth, I'm one myself. On our end (the mixed people), we suffer because, while we get shown on the screen, we sometimes (like in this case) don't get to be mixed people and instead have to pretend to be "just" black people. They want our look, but they don't want to pay the real world price that look requires, which would be showcasing them as mixed people. I hope that makes sense.

How many people actually care about the discrepancies they're seeing on the screen, I honestly could not say. But even if most of the audience doesn't care, I still don't see why this sort of thing is done. Either cast black people or let mixed people be who they really are.

I think they meant Iris's actress being mixed. I didn't know and thought both her parents were black.

[Frontier]

I think they meant Iris's actress being mixed. I didn't know and thought both her parents were black.

I wasn't sure about that either (in-universe both her and Wally's parents are black).

[Castling]

Well, while they're at it, I hope they address the chaos of why two black people wind up with a mixed race daughter (Iris West). I also think something similar happened with their version of Wally West, but I'm not an expert of that show.

It's not impossible for two black people to have offspring that looks racially mixed.
Also, I don't think Candace Patton is mixed race.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I kind of feel bad for being relieved that Clemons was being recast for hopes of a white red-headed Iris (in hopes of OG ginger Wally). But I guess we ultimately have DiDio to thank for that.

Doubtful, Clemons being cast was Iris was implied to be taking a note from Candice Patton's Iris. If she is recast it'll be another Black actress, but if she's good in the Snyder Cut they may bring her back on in the DCEU IMO.

[WebLurker]

So, we basically now know less then we did when this all started?

[kurenai24]

Well, while they're at it, I hope they address the chaos of why two black people wind up with a mixed race daughter (Iris West). I also think something similar happened with their version of Wally West, but I'm not an expert of that show.

First of all Candice is not mixed.

Second of all the actor that portrayed tv version of Wally West is a black biracial, he's black just as much as he is white. The character he was portraying was black end of.

Is that really chaos? Is it something even a significant minority of audiences are aware of?

No, it's an intra-community issue only minorities would most likely talk about but there are different variations of this conversation like how some Jewish people wanted a Jewish actress to potray Kate Kane or lesbians wanted a lesbian actress for Kate Kane.

So some minorities want monoracial actors to portray monoracial characters, particularly in the black community Hollywood has a tendency to cast biracial black actresses so they will get pushback (maybe small, maybe large depending on the day) for that and will be very confused about it in the process.

But yeah themoreyouknow.gif

[Dark Falz]

First of all Candice is not mixed.

Oh. Do you have an image of both of her parents? I guess you can take that claim up with this page here, not that I'm vouching for the validity of it, but here it is:

https://gossipgist.com/candice-patton

"Similarly, she is of Euro-Afro American ethnicity."

Second of all the actor that portrayed tv version of Wally West is a black biracial, he's black just as much as he is white. The character he was portraying was black end of.

How is that in any contention with anything I said? Also...the character he's he's inspired by "New 52 Wally West," is mixed.

[Dark Falz]

If Iris West's actress isn't mixed, I'll withdraw that, because I've honestly never seen her parents. I recall hearing about how either Iris or Wally or both are mixed but have black parents on the show. Perhaps it's just Wally, then, because I can definitely tell the actor is mixed.

[Blind Wedjat]

Can I ask something?

Why is Whedon supposed to look bad or racist for cutting out minority roles from JL when said roles were very minor supporting roles in the first place? Like I highly doubt Iris West and Ryan Choi were big and integral parts of Snyder's original Justice League film (no, not the new version that's currently undergoing reshoots and we're getting as "Zack Snyder's Justice League") with ample amounts of screen time and character development. Of course if Whedon was brought in to help with rewrites and reshoots and then eventually took over as director when Snyder left, and if he was asked to cut down the runtime by Warner Brothers he would cut out the minor characters and subplots the original film had. It's not his fault that some of those characters happened to be played by POCs.

I know Whedon isn't a saint and I can bet you the production for JL wasn't a great time at all for everyone involved. But I'm starting to feel like this is all about some narrative where Snyder is exalted, while Whedon and Johns are shamed. Ray Fisher has gone from saying Whedon's behaviour on set was "gross and abusive" to saying that he heard from someone else that Whedon wanted to lighten an actor's skin tone because he's racist, and that Whedon and Johns should be thanking him because he's preventing them from being thrown under the boss by Warner. I really am confused by his actions, and none of his allegations seem to go anywhere. The only thing that's been properly brought up was the apparently fake Frosty the Snowman movie announcement, and that honestly is just hilarious.

[The Darknight Detective]

But I'm starting to feel like this is all about some narrative where Snyder is exalted, while Whedon and Johns are shamed.

It's really about Fisher's prominent role under Snyder and his lesser one under Whedon. I totally understand that, but things happen in the production of movies that you have to just deal with. Now if there is indeed racism going on, then Fisher is in the right. However, if he can't prove it, then he is out of luck. I refuse to pick sides without something substantive.