Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[SiegePerilous02]

Agent Z already covered Heard.

To that, I'd like to add that all the people you mention are actors. They are responsible for their actions, and could very well be informal leaders on set, but they do not have the responsibility and the authority to shape the work environment during production. That power belongs to the director and the producer(s), in this case Joss Whedon, Jon Berg, and Geoff Johns.

This quote was from me, not Steel Inquisitor.

And yes, Heard is covered. But in this case, we have yet to get anything substantial for those people in power doing anything really abusive despite Fisher's claims and it just increasingly seems like he's bitter his role was reduced. Them upending the Snyder cut and making a bad patch job to release in theaters sucks, but doesn't seem to warrant a loaded label like "abuse." And it's also coming out after the theatrical cut bombed and we're getting an unprecedented Snyder Cut for HBO anyway, so if there was indeed nothing more than Joss being an ******* in a rushed, tense studio driven situation that trimmed the original planned movie, it seems petty. Unless we for sure get something more solid from this.

And yes, like Steel Inquisitor said, Affleck especially isn't an extra or up and coming actor low on the totem pole here. This ongoing feud is making the producers and Whedon out to be villains, and maybe they are, but so far it just seems they clashed with Snyder's vision. Meanwhile, some of the actors behind it have done some problematic things that warrant side eying, but we're not talking about it because they don't shape the environment of the set?

[kjn]

This quote was from me, not Steel Inquisitor.

Huh. How did that happen? Thanks for noticing.

And yes, like Steel Inquisitor said, Affleck especially isn't an extra or up and coming actor low on the totem pole here. This ongoing feud is making the producers and Whedon out to be villains, and maybe they are, but so far it just seems they clashed with Snyder's vision. Meanwhile, some of the actors behind it have done some problematic things that warrant side eying, but we're not talking about it because they don't shape the environment of the set?

On the other hand, has anyone involved in the production of Justice League claimed anything about the behaviour of Affleck or Leto or Heard or Miller on set?

Because that's what Fisher has done about Whedon, Berg, and Johns. How actors are behaving in other places are really beside the point here (and if we dragged all of that up, this thread would be a total trainwreck).

[SiegePerilous02]

Huh. How did that happen? Thanks for noticing.

No worries, it's done that for me too at times.

On the other hand, has anyone involved in the production of Justice League claimed anything about the behaviour of Affleck or Leto or Heard or Miller on set?

Because that's what Fisher has done about Whedon, Berg, and Johns. How actors are behaving in other places are really beside the point here (and if we dragged all of that up, this thread would be a total trainwreck).

Fair, it's not really on Fisher to report the behaviors of those actors since that has nothing to do with him. It's just more that the narrative in certain circles is to paint Whedon and Johns as villains, when at most it seems like an unpleasant but not uncommon stressful studio-driven patch job for a movie that was going south. If things went beyond that into "abusive" like Fisher claims, there definitely should be repercussions (and Joss has a history, just ask Charisma Carpenter). But it's seeming increasingly unlikely that it goes beyond him being pissed his role was altered in a movie where everything needed to be trimmed down. The actor thing I brought up is just general frustration that some of them should receive repercussions, if not outright cancelling, and aren't. If all of it ends up being true, on all sides of the production, get rid of all of them I say.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I'm not saying that actors like Affleck aren't powerless or influential on set. They are key members. They carry a lot of informal power.

But they are not hired to manage the production of the film, or to shape the workplace environment. They are hired to do their jobs as actors, under the direction and auspices of directors and producers. There is a clear and unambigious difference in their responsibilites.

Informal power means nothing when the person wielding it is apathetic about others suffering by their own cast mates or a refusal to acknowledge something bad may be afoot except when it's their own freedom being effected. And it's not just Affleck, these are lead actors in a big ensemble. On paper that's correct, however, Hollywood is known for maintaining abusive and toxic environments which don't get sorted by staying silent and we know Justice League's actors have a past of problematic behaviors. The reason I bought up Welling is that he had a huge impact on the tone of Smallville's sets by how he acted responsibility and as a leader behind the scenes like all leads do. There's more leadership in Hollywood productions then just directors and producers at this level. Complicating this further in Fisher's case is how he wants to confront toxic people and work environments in Hollywood itself so it looks hypocritical when he won't acknowledge his co-stars problematic pasts, especially Miller's. Fisher may not be a lead but he's trying to confront abuse in Hollywood, and is taking shots at everyone in the movie except his co-stars.

[kjn]

Complicating this further in Fisher's case is how he wants to confront toxic people and work environments in Hollywood itself so it looks hypocritical when he won't acknowledge his co-stars problematic pasts, especially Miller's. Fisher may not be a lead but he's trying to confront abuse in Hollywood, and is taking shots at everyone in the movie except his co-stars.

I'm calling bullshit on that. Fisher has been talking out about people with real power, that is those who wield the money, and whose behaviour he has witnessed or experienced firsthand.

It's a classic stance to push aside valid critique, by placing ever increasing standards on it, or saying that it misses this or that thing.

[Steel Inquisitor]

I'm calling bullshit on that. Fisher has been talking out about people with real power, that is those who wield the money, and whose behaviour he has witnessed or experienced firsthand.

It's a classic stance to push aside valid critique, by placing ever increasing standards on it, or saying that it misses this or that thing.

Fisher's been growing steadily erratic with how many people he wants to be fired over Justice League, and has amplified his intent on attacking institutional problems with racist power structures in Hollywood the longe this has gone on, especially with anyone linked to Justice league. Except the people he's acting with do have power, they're incredibly well known and financially secure celebrities in their own right and he needn't have seen things first hand to have an opinion on things, which has been debatable and flimsy at times.

Nobody is suggesting what Fisher went through wasn't bad, the problem is the substance in his claims which relate to "abuse" and when we get things like misunderstanding color grading as an example of racism people are going to question what's going on. I'm simply asking for Fisher to be consistent, abuse in Hollywood is real and should be fought, except when it comes to his co-stars. Not a single complaint about Fisher about this, from the lead in his next DCEU film he's trying to get. That's not a good look for Fisher.



Now, maybe everything with Ezra was misunderstood over this incident, but nothing from Fisher about this? Why? He has nothing to lose by having an opinion on incidents like this.

[achilles]

One thing I find interesting is that Affleck hasn't said a thing. Given the grief he rightfully got for remaining silent on guys like Weinstein and others, wouldn't he want to be recognized as one of the first to call out other abusers he works with, regardless of the specific type of abuse?

I mean, damn, if Fisher wants to know what abuse on a movie set is like....he could have worked with Hitchcock, Kubric, or many, many others. Those guys dealt real abuse, not just long hours, perhaps short-tempered outbursts, or intense pressure, or ending up on the cutting room floor.

[SiegePerilous02]

One thing I find interesting is that Affleck hasn't said a thing. Given the grief he rightfully got for remaining silent on guys like Weinstein and others, wouldn't he want to be recognized as one of the first to call out other abusers he works with, regardless of the specific type of abuse?

The previous stuff might make him come off as an enormous hypocrite if he spoke out. Sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't," though it really would be a problem of his own making.

Especially if the abuse is being overblown and it's really just Fisher upset about his big break not happening.

[Holt]

So far the only other principle JL actor who has stepped forward to actually back up Ray was Jason Momoa. Gal Gadot, Ben Affleck, Ezra Miller and Henry Cavill have all stayed out of it. The fact that Hamada was dragged into this has likely complicated matters since they all currently have projects with WB lined up.

[Frontier]

So far the only other principle JL actor who has stepped forward to actually back up Ray was Jason Momoa. Gal Gadot, Ben Affleck, Ezra Miller and Henry Cavill have all stayed out of it. The fact that Hamada was dragged into this has likely complicated matters since they all currently have projects with WB lined up.

Heck, even Momoa does with Aquaman 2. And that's actually real.

That Frosty thing was so random.

[Castling]

One thing I find interesting is that Affleck hasn't said a thing. Given the grief he rightfully got for remaining silent on guys like Weinstein and others, wouldn't he want to be recognized as one of the first to call out other abusers he works with, regardless of the specific type of abuse?

Because he's an unreliable witness. Affleck was drunk out of his mind for most of 2017.

[kjn]

So far the only other principle JL actor who has stepped forward to actually back up Ray was Jason Momoa. Gal Gadot, Ben Affleck, Ezra Miller and Henry Cavill have all stayed out of it. The fact that Hamada was dragged into this has likely complicated matters since they all currently have projects with WB lined up.

I think they are being real careful, since they all have upcoming projects with WB. If a lawyer from WB or some police agency comes to interview them, they will probably tell what they know, but it's likely not a mess they want to get involved in unless they have to. That's probably why Momoa spoke up, since that Frosty announcement was so damned stupid and could prove to be a problem for real projects.

[Thezmage]

I think they are being real careful, since they all have upcoming projects with WB. If a lawyer from WB or some police agency comes to interview them, they will probably tell what they know, but it's likely not a mess they want to get involved in unless they have to. That's probably why Momoa spoke up, since that Frosty announcement was so damned stupid and could prove to be a problem for real projects.

If the Frosty announcement was really a problem he would have spoken up a month earlier when it was first announced. Plus considering that Mamoa's involvement wasn't even on the radar then, who's to say that any of them have upcoming projects with WB. Maybe all of those upcoming projects are fake and they just don't care?

[achilles]

Because he's an unreliable witness. Affleck was drunk out of his mind for most of 2017.

Heh. That's not a new problem. I remember he had the same problem back in the early 2000s. I called that movie, "Daredevil, Man Without Beer" back then in his honor.

[Beantownbrown]

Ray Fisher Believes Whedon’s HBO Exit Tied to Justice League Investigation