Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Godlike13]

Lets settle down with bringing up Weinstein, unless your trying to claim its possible Whedon raped someone. Cause thats the Weinstein line.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Lets settle down with bringing up Weinstein, unless your trying to claim its possible Whedon raped someone. Cause thats the Weinstein line.

Especially when the evidence we got about Joss Whedon being racist by Fisher was misunderstanding how color coding works. Which is puzzling, it's not like Snyder doesn't do color coding when he shoots his projects. And Weinstein was taking down by people stepping up and going into detail, as well as lawsuits, Fisher's done none of that which is why people are questioning his accusations.

[king of hybrids]

I actually agree that the investigation probably has something to do with Whedon’s departure, but I’d wager it’s more of a “we can’t wait for the outcome, just go” sense

I also think Stargirl not being transferred to HBOMax and instead being left to effectively wither on the vine at CW is for the same reason (and possibly others in light of the clean house at DC editorial)

[Frontier]

I actually agree that the investigation probably has something to do with Whedon’s departure, but I’d wager it’s more of a “we can’t wait for the outcome, just go” sense

I also think Stargirl not being transferred to HBOMax and instead being left to effectively wither on the vine at CW is for the same reason (and possibly others in light of the clean house at DC editorial)

I thought I read somewhere that Stargirl was being ported to HBOMax, it's just not streaming their exclusively. I figure they felt like Stargirl was a good fit while airing on the CW and the ratings were a hit so they're keeping it there as well, and season 2 might also premier online with HBOMax.

I know a lot of people were skeptical about the CW but I never thought they were leaving the show high and dry when it was probably one of their best received live-action shows after Doom Patrol.

[Rac7d*]

I actually agree that the investigation probably has something to do with Whedon’s departure, but I’d wager it’s more of a “we can’t wait for the outcome, just go” sense

I also think Stargirl not being transferred to HBOMax and instead being left to effectively wither on the vine at CW is for the same reason (and possibly others in light of the clean house at DC editorial)

Stargirl was always a joint project with the cw, at the end of each season it will
Be sent to HBOMAX in full, like CW shows use to be sent to Netflix pre2019

[Menacer]

How many years did it take for Weinstein to get outed as the monster he was? Don't mistake silence for absence of foul play. People in power tend to stay there because of the control and connections they have. Not saying this happened or it didn't, but don't jump to the conclusion that just because people have been silent that nothing went on. It's possible he did abuse people but they didn't want to torpedo their career and stayed silent. Just because it's been happening for over 80 years doesn't mean that **** isn't wrong, so while it may be the norm, the norm can suck pretty bad.

What it comes down to as of right now is that the rumors are Fisher didn't get the deal he wanted and is scorching the Earth and calling out bad behavior, spinning it a bit with PR to get social forum on his side. It also seems relatively likely that those things Fisher is claiming did in fact transpire in some fashion, so what remains to be seen is the severity of the actions and if Fisher is indeed acting out from altruism or a perceived slight.

My two cents? The answer lies somewhere in the middle, but I'm inclined to believe given the absolute mess of a production schedule that the people involved were probably not their best selves during the JL reshoots and Fisher's claims have merit. But we have nothing to go on, it's literally just "he said/he said" so time will tell.

The comparative your making makes no sense...

BUT I definitely agree with you the whole thing is probably some middle ground...

Frankly people being stressed dealing with multi million dollar budgets and acting "abusive" is a normal thing... stress is hard to handle...

Christian Bale was hugely verbally abusive, and caught on tape during Terminator Salvation... and the object of his melt down was manly manly accused of walking around in bales eye line...

If Whedon was abusive i feel we'd hear a lot more about it...

Wasnt Weinstein's rape culter accusations building over decades?

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41594672

A couple petty remarks about whedon dont compare to Weinstein and what he was involved in...

A middle ground based on what we've heard about whedon so far wouldnt be a bad spot to be in...

[Menacer]

How many years did it take for Weinstein to get outed as the monster he was? Don't mistake silence for absence of foul play. People in power tend to stay there because of the control and connections they have. Not saying this happened or it didn't, but don't jump to the conclusion that just because people have been silent that nothing went on. It's possible he did abuse people but they didn't want to torpedo their career and stayed silent. Just because it's been happening for over 80 years doesn't mean that **** isn't wrong, so while it may be the norm, the norm can suck pretty bad.

What it comes down to as of right now is that the rumors are Fisher didn't get the deal he wanted and is scorching the Earth and calling out bad behavior, spinning it a bit with PR to get social forum on his side. It also seems relatively likely that those things Fisher is claiming did in fact transpire in some fashion, so what remains to be seen is the severity of the actions and if Fisher is indeed acting out from altruism or a perceived slight.

My two cents? The answer lies somewhere in the middle, but I'm inclined to believe given the absolute mess of a production schedule that the people involved were probably not their best selves during the JL reshoots and Fisher's claims have merit. But we have nothing to go on, it's literally just "he said/he said" so time will tell.

And another thing

Truthfully what I think has happened is

Whedon came on to project. Didnt like Fishers casting, didnt think Fisher could act, and didnt want him in the movie, probably flatly mentioned on a few occasions that fisher couldn't act, to his face and behind his back... and fisher took it as abusive behavior... its unkind behavior but not out of the norm...

Bill Murray's is famously hard to work with.

On Charlie's angels bill verbally abused lucy liu. Said she couldn't act (i think she can) the verbal battles were so harsh bill didnt return for the sequel .... this is what I think happened.

Whedon thougbt Fisher couldn't act and told him...

Abusive? No I dont think so. Truthful and harsh? Ya probably. ..


Another big difference with Weinstein is once the flood gates opened he was sunk...

Fisher has been railing at this for months... really no support. Jason--aquaman, spoke up, but only once and vaguely... if what happened was truely, truely disgusting behavior why no one else on the production coming forward? Crew? Random witnesses? Extras? Major cast members?

Its probably all just petty **** that took place under a lot of stress...

Im in the building trades... if everyone got canned for acting out under shrinking budgets or lost profits or going over budget... well you probably wouldnt have hardly any crews buidling these buildings anymore...

[skyvolt2000]

I actually agree that the investigation probably has something to do with Whedon’s departure, but I’d wager it’s more of a “we can’t wait for the outcome, just go” sense

I also think Stargirl not being transferred to HBOMax and instead being left to effectively wither on the vine at CW is for the same reason (and possibly others in light of the clean house at DC editorial)

Going to the CW means someone does not have to PAY to see it. You are reaching more folks and it's ratings are better than Black Lightning. Also it seems to have done way better than the CW or WB expected.

It could have a long run on the CW.

Lets settle down with bringing up Weinstein, unless your trying to claim its possible Whedon raped someone. Cause thats the Weinstein line.

It's not rape but the question of why are so few or no one is talking.
As others have put-trying to build up enough credible evidence is a task in itself.

Because when that comes out with support-it's just not Weinstein or Wheldon that is going down-EVERYBODY is going down-even those who had nothing to do with it.
How many careers did Weinstein start? If he was taken out say in 1983-no Oprah Winfree, Cosby Show, A Different World, Roseanne, Buffy Vampire Slayer (Wheldon's earliest writing gig was on Roseanne), Steve Harvey Show and so on. How many careers did he save? Start? So some folks chose to stay silent.

Bill Murray's is famously hard to work with.

On Charlie's angels bill verbally abused lucy liu. Said she couldn't act (i think she can) the verbal battles were so harsh bill didnt return for the sequel .... this is what I think happened.

Don't forget Chevy Chase on Community.
Brett Butler on Grace Under Fire-the oldest son left over it as did another cast member.
Will Smith and Janet Hibbert.
Ed O'Neil and Amanda Burse on Married with Children. She did not invite him to her wedding.
Kate Milgrew and Jeri Ryan on Star Trek Voyager
What's Happening and What's Happening Now-the leads acting toxic.

[Primal Slayer]

I actually agree that the investigation probably has something to do with Whedon’s departure, but I’d wager it’s more of a “we can’t wait for the outcome, just go” sense

I also think Stargirl not being transferred to HBOMax and instead being left to effectively wither on the vine at CW is for the same reason (and possibly others in light of the clean house at DC editorial)

One doesnt really wither at TheCW. They have a far better chance of staying alive and prospering there then anywhere else. Stargirl getting a 2nd season pretty much guarantees a 4 season run.

[Holt]

I actually agree that the investigation probably has something to do with Whedon’s departure, but I’d wager it’s more of a “we can’t wait for the outcome, just go” sense.

To me it reads like he's leaving now because he knows there's a chance something damning will come up in the investigation. Probably not the racism accusations but given his past behavior it's entirely possible there was some unpleasant tantrum that he knows will add credence to the accusations.

I also think Stargirl not being transferred to HBOMax and instead being left to effectively wither on the vine at CW is for the same reason (and possibly others in light of the clean house at DC editorial)

Given the CW situation has been very successful for them, I don't think this has anything to do with the Johns situation. The shows that moved to HBO Max were Titans and Doom Patrol, both of which are too explicit for the CW's teen audience (by contrast, Stargirl was always all-ages). He's also working on the Green Lantern TV show in addition to the other TV projects he's involved in, so nothing thus far makes it seem like WB is trying to oust or cut ties with him.

[Blacula]

Truthfully what I think has happened is

Whedon came on to project. Didnt like Fishers casting, didnt think Fisher could act, and didnt want him in the movie, probably flatly mentioned on a few occasions that fisher couldn't act, to his face and behind his back... and fisher took it as abusive behavior... its unkind behavior but not out of the norm...

I think the more likely story is that, rather than disliking Fisher, Whedon did what any other director would have done when looking at the bloated hours of grimdark footage that Snyder shot and knowing that the WB wanted him to trim it down into a popcorn megahit; thought to himself: "Who the f*** is Cyborg and what is he doing in this Justice League movie?"

The fact is that only New 52 fanboys associate Cyborg with the Justice League while the vast majority of the rest of the world, if they've even heard of him at all, would associate him with the Teen Titans. So cutting that superfluous, oddly-fit character's story to save screen-time would be an easy decision.

Whether or not Whedon was also a rude, abrasive monster on set, I don't know, but for Fisher's sake I hope he can produce some evidence of it; it's win or die (career-wise) at this point for him.

[Alan2099]

I think the more likely story is that, rather than disliking Fisher, Whedon did what any other director would have done when looking at the bloated hours of grimdark footage that Snyder shot and knowing that the WB wanted him to trim it down into a popcorn megahit; thought to himself: "Who the f*** is Cyborg and what is he doing in this Justice League movie?"

Being the least important character, and the least famous actor combined with the one that's making the most complaints on set ("but that's not what Snyder told me we were going to do!") I can easily see Whedon being a bit ruder with him than the rest of the cast.

[Menacer]

I think the more likely story is that, rather than disliking Fisher, Whedon did what any other director would have done when looking at the bloated hours of grimdark footage that Snyder shot and knowing that the WB wanted him to trim it down into a popcorn megahit; thought to himself: "Who the f*** is Cyborg and what is he doing in this Justice League movie?"

The fact is that only New 52 fanboys associate Cyborg with the Justice League while the vast majority of the rest of the world, if they've even heard of him at all, would associate him with the Teen Titans. So cutting that superfluous, oddly-fit character's story to save screen-time would be an easy decision.

Whether or not Whedon was also a rude, abrasive monster on set, I don't know, but for Fisher's sake I hope he can produce some evidence of it; it's win or die (career-wise) at this point for him.

Your version or my version I think we're talking semantics here.

Yes I agree with you, either or this is what is happening...

If something more serious is looming I personally feel Ben Affleck would wanna get out in front of it and speak up.

He is silent, so I take it that as just petty **** going down

[Menacer]

Important read for anyone interest in directors behavior on set due to stress

https://www.insider.com/the-nightmar...achine-2020-12

[kjn]

Important read for anyone interest in directors behavior on set due to stress

https://www.insider.com/the-nightmar...achine-2020-12

Some thoughts on that.

First, that people behave badly at times is to be expected. Hopefully you mend fences soon afterwards and move on.

But if an industry causes bosses to behave badly with regularity, or if a boss behaves badly throughout an entire project, then it's not a single case anymore. Then you have constantly badly-behaved people who are allowed to continue, or a structure that causes people to behave badly. In either case, it should be fixed in some way.

Because it IS possible to run a huge film project largely drama-free or without train wrecks. Patty Jenkins manages. Christopher Nolan manages. Marvel largely manages (except when the uppers cave in to Internet right-wing trolls).