Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Triniking1234]

Yeah, still haven't seen anything worth 'cancelling' over. Like you said he child's play. I see a bunch of hurt feelings, and an unpleasant person... but I also see people standing in line to work with him. People who call him toxic still sign on for the spinoffs and next projects. Maybe he's a jerk to work for... but then every boss I ever had was a jerk to work for. How much different is this? Really... Charisma carpenter says he called her fat? Dang... I now want to cancel everyone I ever met between 1990 to present... that's rude... it's not abusive and toxic. There's a difference. Words matter. What's actually worth canceling someone's career over?

I mean bullying an actress (at least how Cordelia phrases it in her story) because she's pregnant is abusive.
Toxic is over-used tho.

[stargazer01]

I wish we could have heard more from Gellar rather than just a show of support and declaring that she doesn't want to be associated with Whedon.

That's a pretty strong statement, but I would want more details from her as to what she saw and heard on set.

Also, would like to hear from Alyson Hannigan, and, of course, the male cast members of Buffy and Angel.

Similarly, I'd want to hear Gal Gadot speak out as to her dealings with Whedon. She said she had a problem with him that she was able to handle, but I'd like to hear the details to see how/if it links up with Fisher and Carpenter.

Also, where are the Avengers actors in this? If Scarlett Johannsson released a statement about Whedon -- negative or positive -- it would have a seismic impact.

However, I'd bet that with Whedon's star falling, people who now have positive things to say about him will just stay out of the crossfire and keep it to themselves.

My feelings exactly. Same thing with the other JL actors like Momoa, Affleck, etc. We still haven't heard the details of the abuse Ray said he and the others experienced. If they don't want to talk, it's probably because they still have a career unlike Fisher.

People already knew the toxic environment on Buffy, but the Fisher story is a whole other thing. Fisher is not Carpenter. The circumstances are not the same. I bet Fisher also had an attitude because Whedon came to replace Zack and his vision for the characters.

You know what? I don't care, just give me great movies. I don't even know these people to be sure if they are telling the whole truth. I wouldn't put my hands in the fire for them. I only do that for someone I know and completely trust.

[SiegePerilous02]

Anthony Stewart Head has weighed in:
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a...-anthony-head/

Glad he is. ASH seemed like he would have always been one of the good ones.

The male actors are remaining mostly and disappointingly silent so far and I wish they'd speak up, because it's not a good look that they don't. Marsters gets some slack because he's brought up Joss's behavior before now at least. Boreanaz at least liked Carpenter and Gellar's IG posts, which is still good but he could do much more than that. He may open himself up to accusations of hypocrasy though since he had a sexual harassment suit he settled a few years ago.

Nicholas Brendon...not sure how much weight his input would have since he's a mess and abuser himself. But the stress of this environment may have contributed to his problems. Green, Denisof, Richards, etc. I'd want to hear from.

[Triniking1234]

It depends if those actors had anything happen to them personally or if they witnessed anything.

[SiegePerilous02]

It depends if those actors had anything happen to them personally or if they witnessed anything.

This is true as well. Head says he didn't witness anything, but also isn't denying it happened.

[Lightning Rider]

Yeah, still haven't seen anything worth 'cancelling' over. Like you said he child's play. I see a bunch of hurt feelings, and an unpleasant person... but I also see people standing in line to work with him. People who call him toxic still sign on for the spinoffs and next projects. Maybe he's a jerk to work for... but then every boss I ever had was a jerk to work for. How much different is this? Really... Charisma carpenter says he called her fat? Dang... I now want to cancel everyone I ever met between 1990 to present... that's rude... it's not abusive and toxic. There's a difference. Words matter. What's actually worth canceling someone's career over?

Awful apologism. With respect to Carpenter, here's really no excuse for treating any actor, let alone a pregnant one, that way. It's blatantly discriminatory and abusive. "Oh my boss sucked too!" is such a weak framework for contextualizing these claims.

[The Darknight Detective]

This is true as well. Head says he didn't witness anything, but also isn't denying it happened.

What he really doing is supporting someone he likes better than someone else (that's assuming he likes the latter at all). That's perfectly fine and even laudatory, but that's all it really means in regard to this debate.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Yeah, still haven't seen anything worth 'cancelling' over. Like you said he child's play. I see a bunch of hurt feelings, and an unpleasant person... but I also see people standing in line to work with him. People who call him toxic still sign on for the spinoffs and next projects. Maybe he's a jerk to work for... but then every boss I ever had was a jerk to work for. How much different is this? Really... Charisma carpenter says he called her fat? Dang... I now want to cancel everyone I ever met between 1990 to present... that's rude... it's not abusive and toxic. There's a difference. Words matter. What's actually worth canceling someone's career over?

Just because Whedon isn't Roman Polanski (literal child rapist) doesn't mean his conduct can be excused.

I believe Ray Fisher, Charisma Carpenter, James Masters and all the others who have spoken out against Whedon and I stand with them.

To be clear, I'm not saying that what he did was in any way acceptable and I'm not defending it. I am just extremely weary of "cancel culture" in general. Especially because Whedon has worked in the studio system, which means that though he was head honcho creatively, he was basically middle management in the overall power structure. By all appearances, he wasn't any sort of problem to work for over on the Avengers and that's not surprising. Could you imagine pulling this sort of crap on Scarlett Johansson or Robert Downey Jr - or for that matter on more hands on executives like Kevin Feige. Joss is a nerd with the taste for power and the result, unsurprisingly, is toxic but why the hell was there no system in place to rein him in?

I've seen comparisons between Whedon and Harvey Weinstein, which, first off, don't be ridiculous. Their "crimes" aren't even remotely comparable (one of them didn't actually commit any crimes for a start as far as we know), but just as importantly, Weinstein wielded a power in Hollywood that someone like Joss Whedon has never had.

And Anthony Head's reaction is more proof of this. Clearly, Whedon is a dream to work for if you're a) strong enough to stand up to him and b) in his good books. This doesn't mean he's not still an ass because of what he did to people not in those categories but all this unpleasantness could have been avoided if those in more powerful positions were to simply say, "oi, Whedon, do that again and you're through!" or to take any sort of disciplinary action against him and I'm willing to bet that he would have stopped it. What we are talking about here, really, is that Joss is a major bully and there are practical steps that can be taken to neuter a bully that the powers that be (or even their bigger co-stars at the time) should have taken. It won't suddenly make Joss Whedon a better person but it would make him think twice about his actions just in terms of self-preservation.

The fact that simple but firm steps weren't taken to stop his bullying is, frankly, a much bigger problem than the fact that he's a bully. That's what really needs reforming.

[Will Evans]

Is there no HR on film and TV studios?

[SiegePerilous02]

Cancel culture when it goes into full witch hunt mode without much actual proof can be obnoxious. This is a time where I think it is warranted though, considering the patterns on display here and the accounts that line up from people who weren't all on the same projects together. He puffed himself up as some uber feminist and mistreated his actresses.

Let him lie in the bed he made.

[Johnny]

Cancel culture when it goes into full witch hunt mode without much actual proof can be obnoxious. This is a time where I think it is warranted though, considering the patterns on display here and the accounts that line up from people who weren't all on the same projects together. He puffed himself up as some uber feminist and mistreated his actresses.

Let him lie in the bed he made.

Agreed. Cancel culture should be called out when it's warranted. This is an example of someone who got away with being an ass for far too long.

[Lightning Rider]

Is there no HR on film and TV studios?

HR exists largely to protect the company from legal claims. It doesn't actively advocate for the worker.

[skyvolt2000]

The fact that simple but firm steps weren't taken to stop his bullying is, frankly, a much bigger problem than the fact that he's a bully. That's what really needs reforming.

How do you do that?

If on the set of Buffy he was Hellraiser but on say Firefly he was Gentle Ben?

What was different? Did he have someone with him at all times? Was there a buffer between him and those other casts?

Better yet WHO was there that might have kept him in check or he feared? Ron Glass nor Gina Torres are not going to take crap from him on Firefly. What did Juliette Landau-a legend's daughter see? Or did he hold his tongue?

What we are talking about here, really, is that Joss is a major bully and there are practical steps that can be taken to neuter a bully that the powers that be (or even their bigger co-stars at the time) should have taken. It won't suddenly make Joss Whedon a better person but it would make him think twice about his actions just in terms of self-preservation.

You can do that and there are folks willing to look over it. And like I said earlier-that over looking can include not HIRING certain actors.
While you can't do that to say William Shatner or Charlie Sheen or the recently fired Gina Carano-you can to a Ray Fisher.

The bully becomes the protected. Because he has a resume that says that behavior is worthy in terms of profit. Because it's easier to not hire certain folks than try to create better policies for a work environment. In some folks eyes.

[skyvolt2000]

Is there no HR on film and TV studios?

Yes there is.

However they are generally NOT there for the employee. They are for the studio. So while you can file complaints (ALWAYS do so for a paper trail to be on record), it's easier to LEAVE.

Which is what most folks do in order to get work. So when you know what hits the fan-they come out like we are seeing now.

In the case of Wheldon-all these complaints are coming from folks who worked for him while under WARNER BROTHERS banner.

So yes folks are going to look at HR and start asking questions.

However the HR folks who might have known about this are probably GONE be it retired, laid off or fired. If there is a paper trail I am sure TMZ will get it.

[Denirac]

Glad he is. ASH seemed like he would have always been one of the good ones.

The male actors are remaining mostly and disappointingly silent so far and I wish they'd speak up, because it's not a good look that they don't. Marsters gets some slack because he's brought up Joss's behavior before now at least. Boreanaz at least liked Carpenter and Gellar's IG posts, which is still good but he could do much more than that. He may open himself up to accusations of hypocrasy though since he had a sexual harassment suit he settled a few years ago.

Nicholas Brendon...not sure how much weight his input would have since he's a mess and abuser himself. But the stress of this environment may have contributed to his problems. Green, Denisof, Richards, etc. I'd want to hear from.

James Marsters feasibly could elaborate on it.

I know Seth Green and Joss had issues which is why Joss wrote him out.

Nick Brendon is liable to make the situation entirely about himself if he weighs in

Boreanaz has the whole issue of the allegations he settled against him, and if he gets involved, the mob could turn on him too.

Alexis Denisof and Alyson Hannigan are very close to Joss, they're the godparents of one of his kids, and I hear unconfirmed rumors Hannigan was part of the problem. Same with Amy Acker.

And I'm not sure if J August Richards will get involved