Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[The Darknight Detective]

Yeah... that's a definite issue. Again, needs some details because now what's implied is outright criminal. Did he use bad language around her? did he say stuff to make her cry? Did he get handsy or molesty? That's kind of what the first thought was when I read it... is that accurate or is it that an exaggeration? Because criminal charges should be filed.

Honestly, I could actually see THAT being a real thing... Even back in the day between Dawn, Fred, and River there was a lot of young, 'ballerina' types being pushed in his shows and i remember commenting that Joss must have 'a type'. I'd hate for that to really be the case.

Bad language or making her cry is just jackassy stuff, but what she's implying is a lot more than that. Joss has to rebut this or his career is gone with the wind.

[phantom1592]

Bad language or making her cry is just jackassy stuff, but what she's implying is a lot more than that.

That's true, but who knows? People are pretty sensitive and if jackassery is more than she can handle, then 'Joss doesn't get left alone with Michelle' could be the unspoken rule. Everyone wants to protect the younger sister... But man it does sound worse than that.

AND if it is... I would like to see reprocussions come down on everyone else who knew about it and decided 'unspoken rule' was good enough.

Joss has to rebut this or his career is gone with the wind.

That I agree with. He needs to get in front of this fast.

[SiegePerilous02]

actually Marsters, Boreanaz and Carpeneter at least did work on two shows with him.

What I remember the most was all the actors who claimed they were agreeing to work with him whatever project it was as soon as they saw his name on teh caller ID. The story about how the musical episode happened because the cast was hanging out at Whedon's place drinking and singing around the piano....

These stories don't track with 'being around him was a nightmare. I've never associated with anyone from work outside the office. They did.

Who is "they"? It's not the whole cast who went to those parties. Gellar never went to any besides in preparation for the musical for example. Boreanaz never went to any. Neither one of them gushes over him or spent any time with him after the shows were over.

There is also no guarantee he was an abusive asshole towards Carpenter throughout her entire time on both shows. It may have only happened towards the end and that's what matters. After she was fired from the show, she came back for one episode for the sake of Cordelia and the fans because they said they wouldn't kill off Cordy and then went "surprise!" and did just that. She hasn't worked with him since or associated with him in any way. Boreanaz hasn't worked with him, Gellar hasn't, Trachtenberg hasn't, Benson hasn't, Brendon hasn't, Caulfield hasn't. Those like Denisof and Acker who went to the cast parties worked with him again because they were some of his favorites. Abusers are capable of being nice to some people and complete shitheads to others.

As for working while pregnant... that's a really tricky situation that a lot of people deal with. There are a lot of people depending on you doing your job... and when personal decisions get in the way of doing that job... there's a problem. That baby and her family may be the most important thing in the world to the parents... but only the parents. There is an entitlement that just because someone is pregnant then the world will revolve around them... When the reality is that these shows have a LOT of people who rely on things going as planned... and those 22-24 episode seasons are brutal for filming. They aren't filming at 1am because they want to... it's because they need to keep these things moving.

I can honestly see him resenting her for throwing a wrench in his show. And really... i'm not sure he's wrong. When Cordelia got pregnant from angel's kid that show went downhill fast. That really was the turning point that ruined it. Being a Buffy show, he probably should have killed her off and then ressurected her whenever it was more convienent.... But was it 'abusive'? I don't know... I wasn't there. She's the only one even close to going into details... and those details aren't that bad.

How is asking a married pregnant woman who had some previous miscarriages if she was going to abort her baby for the sake of his show "not that bad"? Especially as she tried to tell him in advance and stonewalled her, then let her catch the blame for "Waiting until the last minute." Tim Minear, one of the other head writers and showrunner for season 4 of AtS, backed her claim. He didn't even fire her to her face, she had to hear from the media.

The original plan was always to have Cordelia be possessed by Jasmine and killed off by Angel after a sword fight in a gender flip of the the Buffy/Angelus arc. It was frankly always going to be a dumb as hell storyline and not worth this hissy fit he threw. Yeah the pregnancy threw off the plans for the season, but there should be contingencies in place for such things. Other shows managed to do it.

Joss "feminist woke bae" Whedon doesn't practice what he preaches.

[Goldrake]

actually Marsters, Boreanaz and Carpeneter at least did work on two shows with him.

What I remember the most was all the actors who claimed they were agreeing to work with him whatever project it was as soon as they saw his name on teh caller ID. The story about how the musical episode happened because the cast was hanging out at Whedon's place drinking and singing around the piano....

These stories don't track with 'being around him was a nightmare. I've never associated with anyone from work outside the office. They did.



Debatable.

For many liberals 'What are you going to do?' is the first question they ask whenever they hear someone is pregnant. I personally hate the idea that abortion is so accepted that people talk about it so flippantly, but its definitely a thing.

As for working while pregnant... that's a really tricky situation that a lot of people deal with. There are a lot of people depending on you doing your job... and when personal decisions get in the way of doing that job... there's a problem. That baby and her family may be the most important thing in the world to the parents... but only the parents. There is an entitlement that just because someone is pregnant then the world will revolve around them... When the reality is that these shows have a LOT of people who rely on things going as planned... and those 22-24 episode seasons are brutal for filming. They aren't filming at 1am because they want to... it's because they need to keep these things moving.

I can honestly see him resenting her for throwing a wrench in his show. And really... i'm not sure he's wrong. When Cordelia got pregnant from angel's kid that show went downhill fast. That really was the turning point that ruined it. Being a Buffy show, he probably should have killed her off and then ressurected her whenever it was more convienent.... But was it 'abusive'? I don't know... I wasn't there. She's the only one even close to going into details... and those details aren't that bad.

completely disagree, this is fiction nothing is set in stone, nothing that can't be changed. Being pregnant should be no issue. He showed lack of human empathy. Had he wanted he could have told her "Hey I am happy for you and it will be no problem we will find ways and means to get around this". She would not only be relieved but also will put her at ease.
And what it means the baby is important only to the parent?, if a work colleague is expecting a child, I would be happy for them and supportive. We are not talking about a puppy(which shouldn't be a problem either) but a baby.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Yeah, I hope for Michelle's sake that this means he wasn't allowed alone with her because of his past behaviour not for anything that actually happened to her. If it is the latter, then yeah, this is a whole other kettle of fish.

[phantom1592]

completely disagree, this is fiction nothing is set in stone, nothing that can't be changed. Being pregnant should be no issue. He showed lack of human empathy. Had he wanted he could have told her "Hey I am happy for you and it will be no problem we will find ways and means to get around this". She would not only be relieved but also will put her at ease.
And what it means the baby is important only to the parent?, if a work colleague is expecting a child, I would be happy for them and supportive. We are not talking about a puppy(which shouldn't be a problem either) but a baby.

I've had the misfortune of working with women who use their kids as excuses. I have to stay late... I have to come in early... They miss work at the drop of a hat and I have to cover a whole extra shift always because of something with their kids. I'm usually happy to help out when I can... but man, I already work 13 hour nights, and getting it stretched to 15-16 hour nights because they have to get their kid to school or they missed the bus or something?!? yeah, it gets old really fast.

It comes down to people putting their all into their careers... and someone else having higher priorities. Not saying those priorities are bad, but when it creates more work for OTHER people who don't get any of the joy or benefits of having those kids... It's annoying to say the least.


But the point was, 'lack of empathy' isn't a firing offense.


And besides... it's all fiction and nothing is set in stone was the attitude he had when he jumped into the middle of JL and his changing things around and 'improving' them is what started Fisher's complaint fest in the first place. Sometimes messing with what an artist plans are causes a lot of conflict.

[9th.]

This is hurting me rn, I used to worship Joss Buffy/Angel were my absolute favorite anythings when I was a teen. I watched Firefly and Dollhouse because of him.

[SiegePerilous02]

I've had the misfortune of working with women who use their kids as excuses. I have to stay late... I have to come in early... They miss work at the drop of a hat and I have to cover a whole extra shift always because of something with their kids. I'm usually happy to help out when I can... but man, I already work 13 hour nights, and getting it stretched to 15-16 hour nights because they have to get their kid to school or they missed the bus or something?!? yeah, it gets old really fast.

It comes down to people putting their all into their careers... and someone else having higher priorities. Not saying those priorities are bad, but when it creates more work for OTHER people who don't get any of the joy or benefits of having those kids... It's annoying to say the least.


But the point was, 'lack of empathy' isn't a firing offense.


And besides... it's all fiction and nothing is set in stone was the attitude he had when he jumped into the middle of JL and his changing things around and 'improving' them is what started Fisher's complaint fest in the first place. Sometimes messing with what an artist plans are causes a lot of conflict.

She didn't have a kid she was using as an excuse yet. It was a fetus. She'd been presumably trying for a while and had previous miscarriages, as married couples do. And she tried to make it easier for everyone by talking to him. He ignored her and then asked if she'd abort it.

I don't care how "annoying" it is, that's no way to treat someone. Especially as his storyline wasn't some masterpiece to begin with. It was throwing her character under the bus in the first place.

[Goldrake]

I've had the misfortune of working with women who use their kids as excuses. I have to stay late... I have to come in early... They miss work at the drop of a hat and I have to cover a whole extra shift always because of something with their kids. I'm usually happy to help out when I can... but man, I already work 13 hour nights, and getting it stretched to 15-16 hour nights because they have to get their kid to school or they missed the bus or something?!? yeah, it gets old really fast.

It comes down to people putting their all into their careers... and someone else having higher priorities. Not saying those priorities are bad, but when it creates more work for OTHER people who don't get any of the joy or benefits of having those kids... It's annoying to say the least.


But the point was, 'lack of empathy' isn't a firing offense.


And besides... it's all fiction and nothing is set in stone was the attitude he had when he jumped into the middle of JL and his changing things around and 'improving' them is what started Fisher's complaint fest in the first place. Sometimes messing with what an artist plans are causes a lot of conflict.

Sorry but if you have those issues at work its the management that should take care of taht. Besides you can't make comparisons with your colleagues with what happened with Whedon. He was the captain of the ship, if he wanted respect from the rest, you seek that respect, otherwise sooner or later in will end like the mutiny of the bounty or the people under you will underperform.

[Castling]

More from Michelle Trachtenberg

Attachment 105961

What's with the odd punctuation?

[Ilan Preskovsky]

This is hurting me rn, I used to worship Joss Buffy/Angel were my absolute favorite anythings when I was a teen. I watched Firefly and Dollhouse because of him.

Yeah, tell me about it. Buffy had such a huge impact on me and Joss seemed like a totally stand up dude as a bonus. I'm both disappointed and angry. Yet another douchebag to add to the love the work/ screw the creator list, which I never, ever thought would include freakin' Joss Whedon in a billion years. I really did wish this wasn't true but it's pretty damn hard to ignore at this point.

[phantom1592]

Sorry but if you have those issues at work its the management that should take care of taht. Besides you can't make comparisons with your colleagues with what happened with Whedon. He was the captain of the ship, if he wanted respect from the rest, you seek that respect, otherwise sooner or later in will end like the mutiny of the bounty or the people under you will underperform.

A lack of respect isn't worthy of getting canceled either.

She didn't have a kid she was using as an excuse yet. It was a fetus. She'd been presumably trying for a while and had previous miscarriages, as married couples do. And she tried to make it easier for everyone by talking to him. He ignored her and then asked if she'd abort it.

She kind of was... if suddenly the story, the shooting schedule and everything else about the work day had to be rescheduled around her... and she's upset that it wasn't... That's a weird catch 22. She is asking for special treatment because of her child... who has nothing to do with Whedon, the show, or the hundred people working on the show... A good person tries to make everything go smoothly and help her... but not being a good person and putting the job before a single person isn't always the 'wrong' choice either. Needs of the many over the needs of the few and all that.

I don't care how "annoying" it is, that's no way to treat someone. Especially as his storyline wasn't some masterpiece to begin with. It was throwing her character under the bus in the first place.

I'll never deny it wasn't a jerk thing to do. but being a jerk shouldn't get you canceled. As for the quality of his 'storyline', that's kind of irrelevant. Artists are persnickity.

What's with the odd punctuation?

yeah, that's tough to read... I don't get it.

[SiegePerilous02]

She kind of was... if suddenly the story, the shooting schedule and everything else about the work day had to be rescheduled around her... and she's upset that it wasn't... That's a weird catch 22. She is asking for special treatment because of her child... who has nothing to do with Whedon, the show, or the hundred people working on the show... A good person tries to make everything go smoothly and help her... but not being a good person and putting the job before a single person isn't always the 'wrong' choice either. Needs of the many over the needs of the few and all that.

The whole show didn't have to be re-scheduled around her, just her scenes. It's not like she's at the forefront of the action here, Boreanaz (and his stunt doubles) were. Other shows are able to work around pregnancies. Whedon is suddenly too good to do what other shows did? And maybe it would have gone smoother if he wasn't a prick and talked to her when she first tried to tell him.

Has any of the rest of the crew said she made things difficult for them? Boreanaz at least liking her IG post seems to indicate he had no issues with it. Minear, the showrunner of for season 4 who handled the day to day stuff, backed up her claim that she attempted to reach Joss. So he apparently has no issues either. It doesn't sound like Joss tried to accommodate her at all, let alone trying the best he can and not having the schedule work 100% in her favor, which would be more understandable. And then wrote her pregnancy into the show as effectively the anti-Christ.

I'll never deny it wasn't a jerk thing to do. but being a jerk shouldn't get you canceled. As for the quality of his 'storyline', that's kind of irrelevant. Artists are persnickity.

When you're building your career around being an uber feminist and ally to women, and consistently being a jerk to a lot of your actresses and creating/enabling a hostile work environment, you kind of deserve being cancelled. That's not getting into whatever the hell is going on with Trachtenberg.

[Will Evans]

completely disagree, this is fiction nothing is set in stone, nothing that can't be changed. Being pregnant should be no issue. He showed lack of human empathy. Had he wanted he could have told her "Hey I am happy for you and it will be no problem we will find ways and means to get around this". She would not only be relieved but also will put her at ease.
And what it means the baby is important only to the parent?, if a work colleague is expecting a child, I would be happy for them and supportive. We are not talking about a puppy(which shouldn't be a problem either) but a baby.

This is a slippery slope for live action actresses. Unlike normal jobs where there should be a system in place for when pregnancies and such occur, for on screen actresses I imagine it’s case by case.

Sometimes they hide the actress behind a shot. Others they work the pregnancy into the storyline.

I remember as a kid the infamous situation when Bill Cosby was furious at Lisa Bonet for getting pregnant with Zoe Kravitz, and messing up A Different World.

[Goldrake]

This is a slippery slope for live action actresses. Unlike normal jobs where there should be a system in place for when pregnancies and such occur, for on screen actresses I imagine it’s case by case.

Sometimes they hide the actress behind a shot. Others they work the pregnancy into the storyline.

I remember as a kid the infamous situation when Bill Cosby was furious at Lisa Bonet for getting pregnant with Zoe Kravitz, and messing up A Different World.

another walking saint.

Gal Gadot was pregnant when they filmed JL - they managed to work around the fact she was with child.