Warner Bros/Joss Whedon/Ray Fisher Justice League

[Thezmage]

Sadly, even if he does, I don't think his Hollywood dream will come true after this.

Oh, his Hollywood dream is dead. Even if he is 100% right about Johns and Hamada and they get publicly shamed the industry is not kind to whistleblowers.

[BlackClaw]

Oh, his Hollywood dream is dead. Even if he is 100% right about Johns and Hamada and they get publicly shamed the industry is not kind to whistleblowers.

That’s heartbreaking. I was hoping that Marvel could swoop in and offer him a role but that seems unlikely now.

[The Darknight Detective]

Oh, his Hollywood dream is dead. Even if he is 100% right about Johns and Hamada and they get publicly shamed the industry is not kind to whistleblowers.

Look what happened to an Oscar-winning actor like Cliff Robertson back in the '80s when he uncovered embezzlement at Columbia. He was blackballed from movies for quite a few years, despite being 100% in the right. Someone of Fisher's lower Hollywood status and with an underwhelming case is going to have a much tougher hill to climb.

[stargazer01]

I don't think we can judge Ray's talent by his scenes being cut. If he had been an amazing talent his scenes might have been saved but even if he was at the same level as the rest of the cast I would expect his scenes to be cut simply because by all accounts they're largely irrelevant to the story. The movie apparently had a lot of bloat to cut out to get down to 90 minutes.

I think JL is 2 hours long. I think that could be the issue, JL had a lot of filler that wasn't very relevant. The Snyder cut is 4 hours long... I think the character that really needed more scenes was Clark Kent and Superman. Aquaman too. He didn't do much, but he was hella charismatic and had some memorable moments.

It seems I'm in the minority, but I liked Fisher as Cyborg quite a bit in the theatrical cut. Sure, he wasn't charismatic, but maybe that was because he played it very serious, but I loved his scene with Superman at the end when they were separating the Mother Boxes. To me, his story was one of the best executed. Flash was to comical overall in comparison.

That said, almost anyone can do what Fisher did. He isn't a revelation.

[stargazer01]

Look what happened to an Oscar-winning actor like Cliff Robertson back in the '80s when he uncovered embezzlement at Columbia. He was blackballed from movies for quite a few years, despite being 100% in the right. Someone of Fisher's lower Hollywood status and with an underwhelming case is going to have a much tougher hill to climb.

Maybe Fisher expects Snyder to save his career..

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Yeah, regardless of Whedon's behaviour, we have to assume that there's a reason why Fisher's role was so thoroughly reduced. He thoroughly unimpressed me in what we did see of him - but, to be honest, I am biased. I have no idea what Cyborg is doing as one of the Big 7 JLA members - he's a Teen Titan and not even one of the more memorable ones.

Then again, nearly everything else about Snyder's vision for the DCEU has sucked so why should this be any different?

[Thezmage]

I think JL is 2 hours long. I think that could be the issue, JL had a lot of filler that wasn't very relevant. The Snyder cut is 4 hours long... I think the character that really needed more scenes was Clark Kent and Superman. Aquaman too. He didn't do much, but he was hella charismatic and had some memorable moments.

It seems I'm in the minority, but I liked Fisher as Cyborg quite a bit in the theatrical cut. Sure, he wasn't charismatic, but maybe that was because he played it very serious, but I loved his scene with Superman at the end when they were separating the Mother Boxes. To me, his story was one of the best executed. Flash was to comical overall in comparison.

That said, almost anyone can do what Fisher did. He isn't a revelation.

Like you said, nothing to write home about but not nearly as bad as people are saying. Given more of an opportunity to prove his emotional chops might make or break him. But I don't plan to watch the Snyder cut so I guess I'll never know.

Maybe Fisher expects Snyder to save his career..

I'm certain on this.

[Thezmage]

Yeah, regardless of Whedon's behaviour, we have to assume that there's a reason why Fisher's role was so thoroughly reduced. He thoroughly unimpressed me in what we did see of him - but, to be honest, I am biased. I have no idea what Cyborg is doing as one of the Big 7 JLA members - he's a Teen Titan and not even one of the more memorable ones.

Then again, nearly everything else about Snyder's vision for the DCEU has sucked so why should this be any different?

I mean Barry's role was reduced, too. Everybody pretty much gets one scene to establish where they are and why they're being heroes and then they join the group and all the focus from there is on group dynamics. I don't claim to be much of a storytelling auteur but I think this is the extent to which the various non-established characters should be focused on in a team movie

[stargazer01]

Yeah, regardless of Whedon's behaviour, we have to assume that there's a reason why Fisher's role was so thoroughly reduced. He thoroughly unimpressed me in what we did see of him - but, to be honest, I am biased. I have no idea what Cyborg is doing as one of the Big 7 JLA members - he's a Teen Titan and not even one of the more memorable ones.

Then again, nearly everything else about Snyder's vision for the DCEU has sucked so why should this be any different?

Well I liked his work in the movie just fine. And if I remember well, Cyborg appeared in the Superfriends show in the 70s or 80s, so there is precedent. I think he was in the movie because his character is different than the others. Plus his connection to the Mother Box tech. Wasn't he in a recent JL comic? War with Darkseid and written by Johns? :P

[The Darknight Detective]

Yeah, regardless of Whedon's behaviour, we have to assume that there's a reason why Fisher's role was so thoroughly reduced. He thoroughly unimpressed me in what we did see of him - but, to be honest, I am biased. I have no idea what Cyborg is doing as one of the Big 7 JLA members - he's a Teen Titan and not even one of the more memorable ones.

Sounds like you would have been unimpressed with a young Sidney Poitier or Denzel Washington as Vic, too.

[Thezmage]

Well I liked his work in the movie just fine. And if I remember well, Cyborg appeared in the Superfriends show in the 70s or 80s, so there is precedent. I think he was in the movie because his character is different than the others. Plus his connection to the Mother Box tech. Wasn't he in a recent JL comic? War with Darkseid and written by Johns? :P

Johns added Cyborg as a founding member of the JLA in the new 52. It can be hard to assume motive for a public figure like that but I'm fairly certain that he was added because without him it would be a bunch of white guys, which doesn't mean he doesn't also deserve a spot on the team. Connecting him to Apokalyptin technology seems to be a way of ensuring his worthiness to be on the team doesn't get questioned, both by upping his power level and by connecting him to Darkseid, who seems to be the ultimate DC villain these days.

[lefthanded]

Yeah, regardless of Whedon's behaviour, we have to assume that there's a reason why Fisher's role was so thoroughly reduced. He thoroughly unimpressed me in what we did see of him - but, to be honest, I am biased. I have no idea what Cyborg is doing as one of the Big 7 JLA members - he's a Teen Titan and not even one of the more memorable ones.

Then again, nearly everything else about Snyder's vision for the DCEU has sucked so why should this be any different?

Gal Gadot made a strong impression as Wonder Women in limited screentime in BVS. No one would say Gadot has amazing acting chops, but she has screen presence and charisma.

Comparatively, in JL, neither Flash nor Cyborg made any impression on me beyond being merely average. Whether this reflects the script, the direction, or actor ability(, or lack of a signature musical motif like WW), that is unclear.

Still, if Joss Whedon was not hired, it is unlikely the Fisher's Cyborg would have been any better than what we see. If they truly cut Oscar-worthy performances from Fisher, that likely would have been mentioned already.

[Pinsir]

The main take away here is the incentive structure; Fischer had no reason to keep his mouth shut after the failure of JL, so he didn't (same thing happened with Boyega btw). When people are so bound up in contracts and future obligations, we shouldn't be surprised if in ten years when a lot of these franchises are long dead that more allegations resurface.

[Ilan Preskovsky]

Yeah, sorry, that's exactly the point. If Poitier or Denzel were Cyborg, their sheer charisma and acting chops would have made even me care about the character. Gal Gadot was virtually the only good thing about BvS and she was barely in it. He may become a better actor if he still has a career after this and his cut scenes may make him look like Daniel Day Lewis but from what we saw in the theatrical cut, he's utterly bland at very best. Ezra Miller, on the other hand, can capture the screen and can act well but his main weakness here was a) the ugliest superhero suit ever and b) being totally miscast as Barry Allen.

And, yes, I'm still bitter that Johns made Cyborg one of the Big 7 for no reason other than - as far as I can tell - that he happens to be black. Which is all the weirder because he replaced Martian Manhunter who not only can be seen as a metaphor for the black experience but has been portrayed by black actors for years!

Mind you, considering how awful the CGI is, I'm kind of glad they didn't try and include MM. Cyborg looks ropey enough.

[achilles]

Yeah, sorry, that's exactly the point. If Poitier or Denzel were Cyborg, their sheer charisma and acting chops would have made even me care about the character. Gal Gadot was virtually the only good thing about BvS and she was barely in it. He may become a better actor if he still has a career after this and his cut scenes may make him look like Daniel Day Lewis but from what we saw in the theatrical cut, he's utterly bland at very best. Ezra Miller, on the other hand, can capture the screen and can act well but his main weakness here was a) the ugliest superhero suit ever and b) being totally miscast as Barry Allen.

And, yes, I'm still bitter that Johns made Cyborg one of the Big 7 for no reason other than - as far as I can tell - that he happens to be black. Which is all the weirder because he replaced Martian Manhunter who not only can be seen as a metaphor for the black experience but has been portrayed by black actors for years!

Mind you, considering how awful the CGI is, I'm kind of glad they didn't try and include MM. Cyborg looks ropey enough.

That's my position as well. An actor with star level charisma can make you care even with that little. Again, Ford in that first scene as Han in the Cantina. It took seconds, that was all, before I understood I was looking at the breakout star of the movie. Fisher...seems competent. Hell, Guinness just had to walk on scene for you to care. Even in some of Ford's earliest work showed he was a star. His appearance in Kung Fu, his cameo opposite Gene Hackman in The Conversation, and especially his cameo in American Graffiti where he stole the show with just a few lines. If Fisher could have done that, I'm pretty sure even Whedon would have found a way to keep more of his role in the movie, and he likely would have gotten that Cyborg solo regardless of how League did.