X-Men #12 spoilers (prelude to X of Swords)

[pkingdom]

This was a lot of worldbuilding and new characters and I really didn't care about them. But I've never been a fan of Hickman's worldbuilding, because the actual pay-offs haven't landed. Its like a DnD dungeon master who explains how his personal fantasy world works down the tiniest minutia, and the only thing the players actually have to do is talk to someone. It honestly reminds me of when Jason Aaron spents multiple issues hyping up the Final Host, and then they were just voiceless giant robots that got punched. And it really looks like this whole thing is going to be an Apocalypse story like I thought, so I really don't care.

But I know I'm in the minority there. I just don't care about the backstory they're giving for their magic fantasy utopia island. I need something more grounded around characters I actually like and am invested in.

[king of hybrids]

So where does this backstory for Apocalypse square with his time as the Celestials’ patsy?

Or the literal legions of Apocalypse descendants that have for some reason now been retconned to be human wannabes?

[otipep_90]

This whole Arrako vs Amenth Demons kind of reminds me of Azazel’s Neyaphem vs the Cheyarafim mutants. It’s seems like a long shot, but maybe they are related? Where did Amenth come from and is it the dimension Nightcrawler teleports through? Is Azazel and Selene from the First Generation of Mutants?

Also why is Burke missing from the Externals?

[Glio]

So where does this backstory for Apocalypse square with his time as the Celestials’ patsy?

Or the literal legions of Apocalypse descendants that have for some reason now been retconned to be human wannabes?

This does not contradict anything with what we know of Apocalypse, it has lived millennia and there is much of his time in Ancient Egypt that we know nothing about.

This is probably after he helped save the world from the Brood alongside Shield because back then he still had hair (lol)

[Big Joe]

He still sounded like a drone though lol.

I know we saw Unus in some preview art, but so random!

I agree, he sounded odd, but I suppose cannon fodder is a step up from wallpaper.

[Wengweng805]

Great Issue, might take a couple of reads to take it all in. Got me more excited for X of Swords.

[H-E-D]

So where does this backstory for Apocalypse square with his time as the Celestials’ patsy?

Or the literal legions of Apocalypse descendants that have for some reason now been retconned to be human wannabes?

Apocalypse was around for thousands of years before encountering Ship, assuming the 1100 AD date for his first contact with it still holds.

[Wolverine12]

I really enjoyed this issue. I would love a good series that just told us the whole story from start to finish about Orrako. Honestly fascinating stuff for me and the designs for the OC’s are amazing. I hope X of Swords can keep up this level for the whole event.

[gambitxremy]

This does not contradict anything with what we know of Apocalypse, it has lived millennia and there is much of his time in Ancient Egypt that we know nothing about.

This is probably after he helped save the world from the Brood alongside Shield because back then he still had hair (lol)

Hickman is gonna take us back to shield reference. Everything he has done for marvel. Is all connected and one big story.

Apocalypse the great reseeder!

The first mutant of the second generation. I wonder if this is going to connect to externals

[Grunty]

Apocalypse was around for thousands of years before encountering Ship, assuming the 1100 AD date for his first contact with it still holds.

From what i read his claim of encountering the ship in the "12th century" makes more sense as meaning BC than AD. Which still gives him at least one and a half millenium to have been around after the whole deal with Rama Tut around 2900 BC.

[Glio]

Hickman is gonna take us back to shield reference. Everything he has done for marvel. Is all connected and one big story.

Apocalypse the great reseeder!

The first mutant of the second generation. I wonder if this is going to connect to externals

I think it just implies that there were mutants before him, like Selene.

[Whim]

I liked it as a set up issue. Though I really wish some of the X-Men got to do something. It still feels weird for Apoc to be somewhat of the good guy and sort of care about his former followers.

I wish some of his ex minions would get used. The first horsemen besides Warren from his original appearances. The Dark Riders.

Banshee and .... Unus? That seems like quite the odd duo and not much insurance. Especially since that preview art had Unus captured. Guess that makes sense now.

Poor Banshee. That death and then revived as sort of a horsemen/zombie thing that couldn't even talk. Now he's probably a sacrifice.

[superjosh]

I agree, he sounded odd, but I suppose cannon fodder is a step up from wallpaper.

Was this his first line in the Hickman era? One major thing that Hickman and co. could easily (and needs to) improve upon is character interactions. The mutants that have been resurrected from long absences (in Banshee's case, he was dead for a while and then a zombie for a while) should just get like one moment to acknowledge their existence. It doesn't have to be major or melodramatic. For example, they could've just had Banshee hanging with Forge in X-Force and some comment about being happy to back with his buddy.

[Big Joe]

Was this his first line in the Hickman era? .

Certainly the first time I've noticed him speaking. He's appeared in the background a few times, he was shown interacting with his daughter early on, but no speech.

[Grunty]

This was a lot of worldbuilding and new characters and I really didn't care about them. But I've never been a fan of Hickman's worldbuilding, because the actual pay-offs haven't landed. Its like a DnD dungeon master who explains how his personal fantasy world works down the tiniest minutia, and the only thing the players actually have to do is talk to someone. It honestly reminds me of when Jason Aaron spents multiple issues hyping up the Final Host, and then they were just voiceless giant robots that got punched. And it really looks like this whole thing is going to be an Apocalypse story like I thought, so I really don't care.

Have to admit i feel similar. It's a big detailed world building effort, that i have to respect, but for something which doesn't feel like it will be around for long, be re-used again much (after Dawn of X) and bites with the X-men's general setting (modern day reflection of society via a super hero lens and urban fantasy) or the Marvel Universe at large.

It also feels like the various other attempts at building up a big mystical enemy faction to threaten the heros, but without much staying power after it had it's use.

Like the invaders from the Ghost Box in Astonishing X-men. Which even got a two issue mini to detail just how dangerous they are, showing them having beaten various other incarnations of the X-men in the past across the multiverse. Only for the X-men to beat them by just firing a death star style laser at them. So the destroyers of countless X-men across the multiverse never got referenced again.

Or that multiverse conquerer from X-treme X-men who had a thing for Storm. Or the Neo, the "to mutants what mutants are to humans", who have more or less become a joke pretty quickly. The list goes on.

I also get reminded to the Final Horsemen of Apocalypse, with their highly detailed and cool designs, impressive presentation of powers and detailed backstory. But got beaten and then forgotten for the time being.

It all can make for good stories in the moment, but not necessarily something to be remembered beyond personal little favorit bits of some readers.

Not to rain on anyone's parade, i can certainly understand people being extremely excited for this event and the world building in this issue, but the track record for grand otherworldly enemies to stick around or even become regulars in the X-men mythos seems quite lower than, for memorable but less impressive smaller enemies, who are more bound to Earth or the Marvel Universe at large.