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  1. #16
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    I like goldenage and silverage. I like jon and lois. Moore wrote iconic stories of bronze age with Super-family. So someone who like precrisis =/= anti-superfamily.
    Yeah, but in a way, the core story of the Man Who Has Everything is not the marriage and Jon, but about the fact that Superman can't be happy, because he has the responsibility as Superman. But aside Moore himself is not bent on Superman's marriage, because his Superman's story never had that which I mean not Superman story for DC, but for his Miracleman and Supreme. Though I believe the reason why people don't really love marriage is because of the drama. The drama that is provided by making two beautiful women chasing after Superman is infinitely more fun to write and read then when he is married with a kid. The soap opera, the youthfulness of the woman and Clark, and the innocent mind of young adults are brimming in those writings then the marriage. So that's the selling point that most writers don't want to marriage superheroes.
    Last edited by Laufeyson; 09-17-2020 at 07:47 AM.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

    PERFECT CONCLUSION: LEARNING END

  2. #17
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    Yeah, but in a way, the core story of the Man Who Has Everything is not the marriage and Jon, but about the fact that Superman can't be happy, because he has the responsibility as Superman. But aside Moore himself is not bent on Superman's marriage, because his Superman's story never had that which I mean not Superman story for DC, but for his Miracleman and Supreme. Though I believe the reason why people don't really love marriage is because of the drama. The drama that is provided by making two beautiful women chasing after Superman is infinitely more fun to write and read then when he is married with a kid. The soap opera, the youthfulness of the woman and Clark, and the innocent mind of young adults are brimming in those writings then the marriage. So that's the selling point that most writers don't want to marriage superheroes.
    There is also whatever happened to the man of tomorrow as well. Jon was created in that. Yes! He has responsibilities. But, he walks around being clark kent all the time. So, doesn't that negate his duty bound nature? Yeah! About drama, i don't like drama. So, super-marriage for me is perfectly fine.

  3. #18
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    There is also whatever happened to the man of tomorrow as well. Jon was created in that. Yes! He has responsibilities. But, he walks around being clark kent all the time. So, doesn't that negate his duty bound nature? Yeah! About drama, i don't like drama. So, super-marriage for me is perfectly fine.
    Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow idea is that the last day of Superman and the idea, if the kid that is with Superman is Jon, is up to your interpretation. I mean even like that, if we took a chance then Superman is actually already retire from being Superman and live the rest of his life as Lois' husband. Remember, the interview of Lois happens, because Superman is already presumed to be death, because he is last seen 10 Years ago. Which is during the story of Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow happened.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

    PERFECT CONCLUSION: LEARNING END

  4. #19
    Extraordinary Member manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow idea is that the last day of Superman and the idea, if the kid that is with Superman is Jon, is up to your interpretation. I mean even like that, if we took a chance then Superman is actually already retire from being Superman and live the rest of his life as Lois' husband. Remember, the interview of Lois happens, because Superman is already presumed to be death, because he is last seen 10 Years ago. Which is during the story of Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow happened.
    Sure, that's because that was the meant to be a send off. Doesn't mean that has to happen now. Regardless, i don't believe waid would just come in and take apart the marriage. The kid is popular enough even now after bendis's run. I might be optimistic. But, i believe we could get great run with superman having goldenage or silverage personality and jon being a part of that as well. Maybe, we could get a run that blows the roof off.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-17-2020 at 08:17 AM.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Sure, that's because that was the meant to be a send off. Doesn't mean that has to happen now. Regardless, i don't believe waid would just come in and take apart the marriage. The kid is popular enough even now after bendis's run. I might be optimistic. But, i believe we could get great run with superman having goldenage or silverage personality and jon being a part of that as well. Maybe, we could get a run that blows the roof off.
    Yeah, you are right, he won't do it unless the editorial asks him to do it which is bonker, because he is just that popular in you and several readers out there. But, if the One More Day teaches me something, it's sometimes Editorial group will retcon something even if it's popular and be aware Mark Waid is in the summit of the OMD.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

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  6. #21
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laufeyson View Post
    I believe Mark Waid doesn't like the marriage and kids because he loves the Golden Age and Silver Age's Clark's love triangle. But I can see a political, lesser-known villains, here and there.
    Over time I think he's gotten used to the marriage. Obviously no idea how he feels about the kid as I don't think he's been asked yet. Either way I don't think these are elements he nor anyone else would be allowed to get rid of though because I think comics, at least the main line, now more than ever are going to be utilized to push the status' of other media projects. Especially live action fare like movies and shows, as those are the most profitable. And right now the only thing Superman has going on is the CW show. There Superman is married with not just a son, but two kids.

    So until I hear anything that might remotely suggest otherwise, I'm not putting my desire for Jon and the marriage's erasure on any list of my realistic hopes as right now its not realistic, imo. And frankly, if DC utilizes the digital market in the ways they seem to want to, which could potentially give us lots of other takes on Superman not married to the main status quo, then my desire to see those things go away will lessen anyway. A lot of my passion with certain ideas is only rooted in the idea that the main line is pretty much all we get from Superman 95% of the time. If that changes, so does that passion.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 09-17-2020 at 01:11 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  7. #22
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    I'd like to see the B and C list heroes of Matropolis come back -- Thorn, Gangbuster, Black Lightning. Might be asking too much, but I hope he can give Supergirl a boost so that she can again support a solo title.

  8. #23
    Astonishing Member Prime's Avatar
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    Is Waid really the best option?

  9. #24
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    Over time I think he's gotten used to the marriage. Obviously no idea how he feels about the kid as I don't think he's been asked yet. Either way I don't think these are elements he nor anyone else would be allowed to get rid of though because I think comics, at least the main line, now more than ever are going to be utilized to push the status' of other media projects. Especially live action fare like movies and shows, as those are the most profitable. And right now the only thing Superman has going on is the CW show. There Superman is married with not just a son, but two kids.

    So until I hear anything that might remotely suggest otherwise, I'm not putting my desire for Jon and the marriage's erasure on any list of my realistic hopes as right now its not realistic, imo. And frankly, if DC utilizes the digital market in the ways they seem to want to, which could potentially give us lots of other takes on Superman not married to the main status quo, then my desire to see those things go away will lessen anyway. A lot of my passion with certain ideas is only rooted in the idea that the main line is pretty much all we get from Superman 95% of the time. If that changes, so does that passion.
    I feel you about the digital market as an alternative. I also want a series where Superman is single and had an adventures with him as the main character and him alone because I am still and will always in the camp the marriage between Lois and Superman hurts Lois more than Superman.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

    PERFECT CONCLUSION: LEARNING END

  10. #25
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Is Waid really the best option?
    Best is subjective. But he’s one of the most likely options to get the book. The “best” options imo would be Hickman and Ewing but that’s not happening.

  11. #26
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    Is Waid really the best option?
    I think the safest is the way to paraphrase it. Out of everyone in DC right now, Waid is the safest option with Russell the best and Yang the second safest option.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

    PERFECT CONCLUSION: LEARNING END

  12. #27
    Fantastic Member witchboy's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings about Waid because he's hit and miss with me. I loved Kingdom Come and his JLA run, but his Legion run was so bland and dull, especially since the much more fun and vibrant Reboot was scrapped to make room for it.
    My biggest worry is that Waid will break up the marriage, or worse retcon it out somehow. I'm invested in the story of Lois and Clark. I've watched it develop and grow, and I want the characters to be able to continue to grow and move forward, not stuck in a holding pattern, forever moved back to the beginning once things go so far.
    And I like the marriage, when it's written well. Bendis has made a train wreck out Lois and Clark as spouses and parents, making appallingly out of character bad choices. Character history is an important element in comics, it's why I buy Superman instead of trying out that new indie book - sometimes I do both, but that's still part of my buying choice. Character loyalty. Scrapping history whittles away that investment. It's part of why I had a big problem with New 52 and dropped a lot of titles at that time.
    I do think the portrayal of Superman as a family man in Young Justice and the CW shows helps cement that with an audience. There's always stories that can be told in flashbacks and out of continuity stories.
    And I would totally buy a "Year One" type book in addition to a book with the marriage going forward.

  13. #28
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    Is it certain that Waid just hates their marriage so much? I read his pitch, but there was no direct hatred, he just pointed out that a married superhero is not interesting to anyone, and that was twenty years ago.
    In any case, no one will let him to do anything with the marriage. Waid will either have to accept it or write something else. They have no reason to remove the marriage, this decision is incredibly risky and fraught with a bad reaction, they absolutely do not need it now. They basically killed New 52 version to get marriage back. Family Superman is likely, in principle, to be the priority direction even in the media. The CW series is based on Tomasi's run, in Young Justice he's also married and has Jon, even Snyder had it planned.
    Quite the opposite, I am confident that the next run will be as safe as possible.

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    It'd be nice to give Waid a self contained Black Label book so he can write whatever he wants, marriage or no.

    It being a self contained graphic novel not relying on constantly shifting continuity would probably give it better legs in the long run anyway.

  15. #30
    Incredible Member Laufeyson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    I have mixed feelings about Waid because he's hit and miss with me. I loved Kingdom Come and his JLA run, but his Legion run was so bland and dull, especially since the much more fun and vibrant Reboot was scrapped to make room for it.
    My biggest worry is that Waid will break up the marriage, or worse retcon it out somehow. I'm invested in the story of Lois and Clark. I've watched it develop and grow, and I want the characters to be able to continue to grow and move forward, not stuck in a holding pattern, forever moved back to the beginning once things go so far.
    And I like the marriage, when it's written well. Bendis has made a train wreck out Lois and Clark as spouses and parents, making appallingly out of character bad choices. Character history is an important element in comics, it's why I buy Superman instead of trying out that new indie book - sometimes I do both, but that's still part of my buying choice. Character loyalty. Scrapping history whittles away that investment. It's part of why I had a big problem with New 52 and dropped a lot of titles at that time.
    I do think the portrayal of Superman as a family man in Young Justice and the CW shows helps cement that with an audience. There's always stories that can be told in flashbacks and out of continuity stories.
    And I would totally buy a "Year One" type book in addition to a book with the marriage going forward.
    I believe to retcon that married is much harder than it looks. While, Waid is not really fans, as already said by poster above, he already mellowed to the fact that Superhero can be married. But, wait a minute Superman is a family man in Young Justice? I remember he ignored and even worse disgusted at Conner Kent, because he is product of clone from Lex Luthor and Superman himself. I believe that's not a family man quality there. But then again, you are right about CW, I believe DC is currently like with the Flash is under a wrong perception that the marriage is selling the title, who I presumed make the marriage even harder to be retconned.
    Akui, Kyōfu, Fun'nu, Zōo, Zetsubō, Tōsō, Satsui, Hametsu, Zetsumetsu, Metsubō

    PERFECT CONCLUSION: LEARNING END

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