If MARK WAID takes over Superman, what's your WISH LIST for him?

[SiegePerilous02]

I believe to retcon that married is much harder than it looks. While, Waid is not really fans, as already said by poster above, he already mellowed to the fact that Superhero can be married. But, wait a minute Superman is a family man in Young Justice? I remember he ignored and even worse disgusted at Conner Kent, because he is product of clone from Lex Luthor and Superman himself. I believe that's not a family man quality there. But then again, you are right about CW, I believe DC is currently like with the Flash is under a wrong perception that the marriage is selling the title, who I presumed make the marriage even harder to be retconned.

He got over that by the end of the first season.

I'm not thrilled with the early take, but it makes a bit of sense he'd react that way. The only issue is they dragged it out for too long so they could resolve it in the season finale. I feel like Superman would have come off a bit better if it wasn't stretched out. But he's been fine otherwise when we see him.

[Morgoth]

But, wait a minute Superman is a family man in Young Justice?

Didn't you watch third season? He's married with Lois and they already have Jon. Clark is just a minor character there, so we haven't seen much of him (comparing to Batman, like always).

[Laufeyson]

It'd be nice to give Waid a self contained Black Label book so he can write whatever he wants, marriage or no.

It being a self contained graphic novel not relying on constantly shifting continuity would probably give it better legs in the long run anyway.

I think that's the best way for Waid to do anything he wanted with Superman.

[Morgoth]

Yeah, Black Label is a best option, if he wants to write something, what doesn't fit into main continuity.

[Laufeyson]

Didn't you watch third season? He's married with Lois and they already have Jon. Clark is just a minor character there, so we haven't seen much of him (comparing to Batman, like always).

I watched the third season, but to point just one episode to show him a family man is straw man at it's best. Clark's most defining moment in YJ is his disgusted at Conner Kent which is really doesn't help his image not only as Superman, but also a hero in general. Conner for most of part is a kid in lab and the way Clark treated him is really unhero which is in a very different way show his human nature. But, then again I don't know if it's really a family man or not with him treating Conner like that. But then again, maybe you are right he is a family man by only being having Jon and married to Lois. Though, I don't know if he is a good dad or not if he treat a kid like Conner Kent like that.

[Morgoth]

So I didn't mean that he is good or bad father, we can't judge because Superman in YJ has a very small role.
My point is that the status of "married man with wife Lois and son Jon (CW even has two sons)" is gradually becoming the main vision for the character. The CW initially introduced Superman this way, and Clark's status in YJ is the same. There are no new movies, but even Snyder led to this.
This is the main reason why they will not get rid of the marriage, because this has already been assigned to the character. And majority of fanbase seemingly okay with that.

[Laufeyson]

So I didn't mean that he is good or bad father, we can't judge because Superman in YJ has a very small role.
My point is that the status of "married man with wife Lois and son Jon (CW even has two sons)" is gradually becoming the main vision for the character. The CW initially introduced Superman this way, and Clark's status in YJ is the same. There are no new movies, but even Snyder led to this.
This is the main reason why they will not get rid of the marriage, because this has already been assigned to the character. And majority of fanbase seemingly okay with that.

Yeah, you are right at that. Clark had too little role in YJ to be a point whether he is a good or bad father.

[Jackalope89]

Just to point out; by season 2, Clark and Conner saw each other as brothers, and even said as much before Superman (along with several other League members) went to space for that intergalactic court.

[friendly-fire-press]

Waid made a pitch to DC many years ago (that infamous one that included Grant Morrison and Mark Millar). It would be interesting to see that pitch manifest in some capacity ... tho it obviously won't be the same without Grant and Mark.

The marriage to Lois shouldn't remain (actually it never should've happened in the first place). Jerry Siegel himself disapproved of the idea (and I agree with him).

Attachment 97135

The quote is from DC Special Series #5 (1977),

And it makes further sense when you read Alan Moore's 'Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?' in proper context. Yes, Clark and Lois got married in that legendary story ... BUT Superman also retired as part of that conclusion. So, if anything, one of the moral's to that infamous story was: If Clark and Lois marry, Superman ceases to exist.

Still, to each their own.

As far as Luthor is concerned, I don't think he should have a past connection to Clark. It's just not plausible that he wouldn't recognise him (that was one of Birthright's biggest flaws).

Having said all that, I'm not sure if any of this (creative team, status quo, etc) makes much difference. Considering the downward spiral mainstream American comics have been moving in (record-low sales, comic shops closing everywhere and the all massive lay-offs recently occurring at DC) ... it's difficult to have an optimistic outlook regarding the future of comics.

[witchboy]

Some people have a fairly limited idea of what a married couple can be like.

[Vordan]

Waid made a pitch to DC many years ago (that infamous one that included Grant Morrison and Mark Millar). It would be interesting to see that pitch manifest in some capacity ... tho it obviously won't be the same without Grant and Mark.

The marriage to Lois shouldn't remain (actually it never should've happened in the first place). Jerry Siegel himself disapproved of the idea (and I agree with him).

Attachment 97135




And it makes further sense when you read Alan Moore's 'Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?' in proper context. Yes, Clark and Lois got married in that legendary story ... BUT Superman also retired as part of that conclusion. So, if anything, one of the moral's to that infamous story was: If Clark and Lois marry, Superman ceases to exist.

Still, to each their own.

As far as Luthor is concerned, I don't think he should have a past connection to Clark. It's just not plausible that he wouldn't recognise him (that was one of Birthright's biggest flaws).

Having said all that, I'm not sure if any of this (creative team, status quo, etc) makes much difference. Considering the downward spiral mainstream American comics have been moving in (record-low sales, comic shops closing everywhere and the all massive lay-offs recently occurring at DC) ... it's difficult to have an optimistic outlook regarding the future of comics.

Funny how bits and pieces of the Superman 2000/Now pitch did end up happening as separate projects like Birthright, Red Son, Morrison Action Comics. I am curious to see what else Waid has to say about the character if he gets the chance.

Some people have a fairly limited idea of what a married couple can be like.

Although in all fairness, the worst of the SuperMarriage has veered between edge and the exact type of toothless wholesomeness that Siegel was wary of. I still like it though, even if I think it’s often failed to live up to its potential.

[manwhohaseverything]

Some people have a fairly limited idea of what a married couple can be like.

I am fairly certain he is right in a manner. There is a whole lot of drama these days with little essence.So, marriage and the kid needs to prove that it can work in the environment that it was created to be.

Not "my wife is living away for a while. What horror! Boohoohoo!". what the hell is clark on about anyways? His wife is a reporter. What did he expect? I hate mundanity being the main flavour of superman. It's like the clark kent fake persona has become superman.Even the kid isn't mundane schlock.

[Laufeyson]

Funny how bits and pieces of the Superman 2000/Now pitch did end up happening as separate projects like Birthright, Red Son, Morrison Action Comics. I am curious to see what else Waid has to say about the character if he gets the chance.

You know what they say, channel your idea into other projects. But to be fair IF Superman 2000/Now pitch did end up happening in its full glory, there will be a death thread about let's kill Morrisson, Waid, Peyer, and Millar because they kill Jon and the Marriage to lead into a new status quo which is kind like Spider-Man BND. While BND really raises the sale of Spider-Man, it raises the dark side of the Spider fandom. I think it will be better if this pitch happens in prestige format, so people don't lose their minds and made ruckus into companies that just get laid off.

[Stick Figure]

I’m not that familiar with Waid but reading this thread makes me wish Bendis would stay. Waid sounds kind of old school. Not my taste

[Kuwagaton]

In the other thread I compared Waid now to Jurgens in the New 52 in that there's not so much of a home to which he can return. The traditional things he'd do well with feel like a regression of sorts even if I don't like how a lot of new stuff has been handled (the secret identity for one)


That's not to pigeon hole him as "old school" at all, but at this point the best and most I can see is returning Superman to his classic, nutty irreverence and universe spanning role as the best and brightest hero.